What`s Your Underlying Reason For Investing?

[housingrental]

Hi Jim



Good point.



It could be because they want to make the world a better place, help people not only make more money but enjoy life better, live life to the fullest. If so, they are truly doing good work, doing good for humanity. Could that be it?



What do you think?



Thank you



[quote user=JimWhitelaw]"WHY" do the people who seem concerned about other people's emotional reasons for investing in real estate either have some coaching to sell or JVs to invest in, or both?



#lookingbehindthecurtain

 

[Rickson9]

Correct. I can only control my intent and I can only control my actions.

 

[MKBridge]

First of all what is level 1,2,3 etc? I haven't heard of this in REIN before.
Anyhow, I have always been self employed and make my money in a variety of entrepreneurial ways. I have to say the main reason I am investing in real estate is to provide myself an income through cash flow. Another source of money to live, have fun and provide for my family. I have always been the main income earner and this is an easy way to bring home the bread - and do it while I'm skiing, traveling, or what ever I decide!

 

[JoeRagona]

Hi everyone, late to the last few posts here .... great thoughts and comments



Jim, I suppose your comment was directed to me so I'll answer you first. The idea for helping people figure out their 'why' is a HUGE part of what we do as Real Estate coaches. I've been an active REIN member for years and although there are many people who have much more experience in years in the real estate end of things, there are so many more who are challenged when it comes to the business of it all.



I've seen some people crash and burn because they don't know how to put all of it together and it's pretty sad to see them squander their life savings.



REIN is there to help people like me (when I first started) learn the true sophisticated fundamentals of real estate investing - they are, in my opinion a Godsend because I would never be this far in my REAL ESTATE if I didn't join this group.



As I attended more meetings and spoke with a LOT of members, I realized there was something I could do to help them achieve their goals ... because, I'm good at what I do.



I'm sure you have joined REIN for a reason, they are coaching you, people join Philip McKernan because they realize they need major help identifying inner stuff and our clients come to us after the phase of excitement is done and the "dip" (as Seth Godin puts it) begins.



I LOVE what I do because we have been able to change people's lives in a very short time. If you call or email me, I would be more than happy to give you our clients contact and you can ask them for yourself.



As Adam points out (thank you Adam) we are doing this for all good intentions ... and yes, there is a cost for someone to step into it. It's probably not a fit for you, however, there are a lot of people that need an extra set of eyes guiding them ... and that is what at least our coaching is about.



We take on customers very diligently, a major questionnaire needs to be submitted to ensure everything lines up - including their own budget because the last thing I want to do worsen the situation for someone lacking funds as it is.



I hope that clarifies a bit for you Jim ... I apologize if you thought my intent is just to get clients and JV partners. Even my JV partners (the ones I'm working on) take years sometimes because I want things to be as perfect as possible so everyone gets exactly what they want.

 

[JoeRagona]

Hi MK,



I'm not sure if REIN eluded to these levels of development around money, but it basically comes down to this:



Level 1 - is all about Getting (as much as you can, taking whenever and wherever you can) it's all moral, we are not talking about stealing or anything, but basically it's a little selfish - which is normal

Level 2 - You Give to Get - that's where A LOT of REIN members are at, we have learned to give back and at the same time reciprocity happens and we Get back something in return

Level 3 - Creating Maximum Value this is where you are NOT focused on "am I going to get something back in return?"



We all start at level one but most people feel guilty about asking for stuff, for feeling GOOD about getting only. when you are OK with asking for what you want (like some of the people have mentioned here already) only then will you be OK with moving to level 2 where giving and getting works for you. You feel like "I'll give this and I'ld like this in return"



Level three is the amazing part, because you are focused on ONLY giving value but when you DO receive things back, you will notice that they are AMAZING things...



Does that help a bit?

 

[JoeRagona]

Exactly , take a quick look at the explantion regarding the levels in my opinion, would you agree with that?

 

[MKBridge]

Hi
Joey, thanks for the explination, I have never heard that before. I think based on my personality I would be a 2 - 3. Even before REIN I have always given what I can (mostly in the way of sponsering foster kids ) and contributed where I can (i.e. volunteering) with nothing expected in return. That's just who I am and not because I invest in real estate.

 

[JoeRagona]

You are very welcome ... at some point you were at level one, it could have been very early, but most people are where you are ... it's great to understand this because it 'allows' you to do more, have a huge 'why' (which was the point of this post in the first place) and also feel great when things come back to you!



I'm very sure that you can understand that because you are sponsering foster kids ...



Great Speed Forward

 

[Rickson9]

I guess I'm level 1. Asset hoarder. Lol

I pay taxes, fees and commissions. Is that giving to get? Level 2?

 

[Thomas Beyer]

Learning --> Earning --> Returning.

 

[bizaro86]

[quote user=housingrental]Great post!!



This type of thing happens.... not much discussion on it.....



[quote user=bizaro86][quote user=Rickson9]Whether or not I'm taking advantage of someone would depend moreso on my intent rather than the strength of the emotional response that I elicited.





What if your intentions are good but your results are bad?



IE. A newbie real estate investor comes back excited from a seminar and uses emotion to get dad/gramma/best friend to fund a real estate joint venture. They make a variety of mistakes, and the money is lost.



Their intentions were good, but the results were poor. Personally, that seems ethically dubious, and would likely damage the relationship involved. Nobody thinks their deal will go south, but it happens.





Thanks Adam.



I'm always concerned when I see people who aren't long time experts (by their own admission) asking for advice on how to manage other people's money, or get set up to charge for advice. That (IMO) is an important trust, and one that shouldn't be entered into lightly. Ignorance is not an excuse for unethical behaviour, again, IMO.

 

[AndreiAngelkovski]

[quote user=ThomasBeyer]Learning --> Earning --> Returning.



Well said! I like it!

 

[housingrental]

Thanks for your thoughts on this - I like the poster above, and I'm sure others, weren't aware of what you were referencing.



Can you clarify who created this system of categorization of people and why?



[quote user=JoeRagona]Hi MK,



I'm not sure if REIN eluded to these levels of development around money, but it basically comes down to this:



Level 1 - is all about Getting (as much as you can, taking whenever and wherever you can) it's all moral, we are not talking about stealing or anything, but basically it's a little selfish - which is normal

Level 2 - You Give to Get - that's where A LOT of REIN members are at, we have learned to give back and at the same time reciprocity happens and we Get back something in return

Level 3 - Creating Maximum Value this is where you are NOT focused on "am I going to get something back in return?"



We all start at level one but most people feel guilty about asking for stuff, for feeling GOOD about getting only. when you are OK with asking for what you want (like some of the people have mentioned here already) only then will you be OK with moving to level 2 where giving and getting works for you. You feel like "I'll give this and I'ld like this in return"



Level three is the amazing part, because you are focused on ONLY giving value but when you DO receive things back, you will notice that they are AMAZING things...



Does that help a bit?

 

[housingrental]

It seems like there's a gaping whole in legislation in that space that should be filled



Any thoughts on why the limited consumer protection / barriers to government implementation?





[quote user=bizaro86][quote user=housingrental]Great post!!



This type of thing happens.... not much discussion on it.....



[quote user=bizaro86][quote user=Rickson9]Whether or not I'm taking advantage of someone would depend moreso on my intent rather than the strength of the emotional response that I elicited.





What if your intentions are good but your results are bad?



IE. A newbie real estate investor comes back excited from a seminar and uses emotion to get dad/gramma/best friend to fund a real estate joint venture. They make a variety of mistakes, and the money is lost.



Their intentions were good, but the results were poor. Personally, that seems ethically dubious, and would likely damage the relationship involved. Nobody thinks their deal will go south, but it happens.





Thanks Adam.



I'm always concerned when I see people who aren't long time experts (by their own admission) asking for advice on how to manage other people's money, or get set up to charge for advice. That (IMO) is an important trust, and one that shouldn't be entered into lightly. Ignorance is not an excuse for unethical behaviour, again, IMO.

 

[JoeRagona]

Sorry about that Adam, there are many ways of just looking at how we "see" money. Harv Ecker talks a lot about this, Stephen Covey, Peter Drucker etc, but Eben Pagen is where I learned this analogy of the psychology of money.

 

[bizaro86]

[quote user=housingrental]It seems like there's a gaping whole in legislation in that space that should be filled



Any thoughts on why the limited consumer protection / barriers to government implementation?




How would the gov't judge who is actually competent? That's the biggest problem, IMO.



A real estate investment properly managed by a competent asset/property manager would be a good thing for a lot of people. If JV type deals were restricted by legislation, or subjected to securities type disclosures, that avenue of investment would close down for those who would benefit from it. That makes the economy less efficient.



I actually think the best plan is for education by groups like REIN and the media for both ends of the deal. If everybody knew what questions to ask someone pitching a deal, this wouldn't be a problem. (How long have you been doing this, what is your track record of success in all stages of the real estate cycle, etc)



If potential "real estate experts" were warned to be able to show that before they tried to raise money that would be good as well.



After all, increasing regulation in this space would be bad for REIN and many REIN members, so it's in their best interest to not attract negative attention to it, which is what happens when stories about somebody stealing from their grandma does.



Regards,



Michael

 

[Thomas Beyer]

[quote user=housingrental]Any thoughts on why the limited consumer protection / barriers to government implementation?


There's plenty government regulation is the securities space, which is the next step after JVs, i.e. JVs with the public. Too much regulation one could argue.



There's bike helmet laws [why: allow me to break my own neck]. Seat belt
laws [why: just up the insurance 10 fold and it'll self regulate]. Fire
codes [pretty anal in many instance]. Rules for property managers or
realtors.



Laws, rules, by-laws, regulations by 3 levels of governments, court rulings, reference cases .. we do not have enough rules ?



One reason for Europe's & US downfall, btw: too much government !



I'd argue that governments in many instances over-regulate. Regulations costs. Costs and benefits have to be weighed !



Perhaps each blog post here at myreinspace should go to a government panel first, for approval ? Or jokes only ?



Each abuser needs an abusee. Do your proper due diligence on house, partner
and contract and 80% of fraud would disappear. Fraud will continue to
happen. Sometimes just bad luck or financial crises or incompetence. It
is hard to regulate incompetence.



Use common sense.



Related post on real estate syndications common sense due diligence: http://myreinspace.com/search/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-22331-110625-8_Mistakes_to_avoid_in_real_estate_syndications.html#110625





Common sense is not so common.

 

[invst4profit]

[quote user=JoeRagona]

Level 1 - is all about Getting (as much as you can, taking whenever and wherever you can) it's all moral, we are not talking about stealing or anything, but basically it's a little selfish - which is normal

Level 2 - You Give to Get - that's where A LOT of REIN members are at, we have learned to give back and at the same time reciprocity happens and we Get back something in return

Level 3 - Creating Maximum Value this is where you are NOT focused on "am I going to get something back in return?"



Does that help a bit?


Based on this definition I am in fact a Level 2.



I am a level two because I have achieved a level of wealth that affords me leverage. I have learned to give back not for the sake of giving but in fact only in order to get back (business wise). I advance money to contractors and tenants in order to assist them. I would not give in this way unless I receive interest or services at a later date in exchange. If I did not receive a monetary related benefit there would be no motivation to give. Because the recipient views what I do for them as me giving and they are appreciative of that this makes me a level two based solely on my selfish desire to make money.



As far as creating Maximum Value at level three is concerned there is no doubt in my mind that astute business people intuitively know that at level three they do not focus on getting back because they have reached a level of investment where they know there giving will generate a return. Knowing that giving generates a return is again the motivation for giving in my opinion. I am of course speaking in regards to giving in a business scene only. What people give in there personal lives outside of business interests is strictly personal and not, in my opinion, the topic of this discussion. Business wise no one gives without consciously or subconsciously expecting a return.





All of this seems to me to simply be a sales package, part of a pitch. I see nothing wrong with that, I am simply acknowledging it is part of your business. Giving with the intent of receiving money. More accurately selling.

 

[JoeRagona]

Hi Greg,



I'm not sure if you are referencing the 'sales pitch' as part of MY business ... as it is certainly not.



That said, everyone will have a different perception of each level. For yours on level three, it's cool ... I however see it in a different way - if I give whether it's business or otherwise, I do not expect anything back the motivation to be giving there is purely something I have always wanted to get to.



Personally, it gives me a great feeling - others may feel differently how it pertains to their business and life.



I know you don't buy into a lot of psycho-stuff as you said and it only means you are looking at things different than I do - doesn't mean either one is right or wrong.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

[quote user=invst4profit]Business wise no one gives without consciously or subconsciously expecting a return.
Indeed.



However the return might be more "soft" or hard to measure as in: reputation, brand, awareness .. thus a form of marketing.



Marketing is not selling.



Marketing is creating demand or creating awareness about the benefits of a certain product or service.



if you see a TV ad about detergent, for example, it is to

a) promote the benefits of cleanliness (mother feels good, child is happy, ..)

b) promote the specific brand

The selling actually happens in the super market next time you decide to buy another box of detergent.



Ditto in "free education" or "giving away knowledge". It promotes the person's brand, his/her knowledge in a certain space and makes potential future buyer of products or services aware of this person (or her/his company).



The "selling" happens later or in parallel, once a brand is established, as in "oh, I know this person .. let me check out if this product/service is for me .. " such as a JV or investment product or book or course or membership.



Most people do it and there is nothing wrong with it. It's win/win. But yes, it is not selfless ! But that is what drives market based societies forward: selfish people, enriching themselves by enriching others ! [and I would include all myreinspace posters in this category]. We give to get. Getting is not necessarily about money, or only about money. It could be happiness, love, time, acknowledgement, ..