Who is buying rentals NOT for?

johnsu

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Many people have heard that Real Estate works and makes Millionaires consistently. Most common way people get in is usually by doing rental properties.



For me this way is probably the most simple way to build wealth if you're ok with the downsides of "owning rentals"



But i find for others, owning rentals just causes more stress in their life and after finding out that they can earn profits that they're expecting in other manners that is more appropriate to their lifestyle and personality.



My concluding thoughts are people should invest according to their personality first and life circumstances 2nd.



What are other people thoughts and Real life understandings around this?
 

2ndstory

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#1. Everything causes more stress in people's lives.



Whether it's owning rental properties or buying a vacation property, you will incure some amount of stress from it. Even planning a vacation in Cabo this spring was more stressful than sitting on my couch for a week and doing nothing. The issue then becomes ROI. Not only ROI on money, but on stress and time. Is it worth it? What is the toll it is taking on you or your family? Are you enjoying it?



#2. If you want a "stress free" life, don't do anything.



Sit back, keep reading blogs and books about real estate. Don't worry about actually doing anything. You might get stressed out! Successful people like Donald Trump, Bill Gates, or Warren Buffett, never get stressed out, and you shouldn't expect to either. btw..hope you were able to sense my sarcasm there...



#3. Learn about systems, but don't get trapped in them.



Lots of people want to know how to make money in real estate. They read books, go to seminars, etc. etc. That's all great. It's a good way to get started and to develop a plan. The thing about it is that I believe people get caught in the trap of believing they must follow a prescribed format that they found in a book or learned at a conference. Once someone has begun to build their portfolio using some of the basics taught by good books and professional mentors, it's time to lose the training wheels and figure out what works for them as an individual. You need to figure out what sets you apart from the mass of real estate investors out there, not necessarily what makes you the same as them.



My 3 cents...



Nik
 

wgraham

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REIN Member
An amazing "Why" will outlast any "How"



Yes, significant amounts of stress can be present in this business. If your talents are not aligned with your goals the stress will be significantly amplified. Do what you are freeking amazing at....get someone else to do what you hate and they are freeking amazing at.



I wrote a blog a little while back entitled "I Want To Quit My Job" that got into this topic in detail. Check it out and add your 2 cents!
 

johnsu

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Hi Nik



#2 "Stress Free" equals being dead! Cause people who don't "do anything" stress about that and if you ask me, you got bigger problems in life than money if you want a "stress free" life that bad



#3 People who get analysis paralysis use that as a crutch. Who i know how to do "investing" but can't pull the trigger. Some people expect "all the stars" to line up "exactly" as the program or book said. Some systems like property managment need to be followed like screen the tenant but other things like rent adjustment needs to flow with what the market will pay.



my 2 cents to your 3 cents! Now we got a nickel! LOL
 

DanieLL

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[quote user=2ndstory]Successful people like Donald Trump, Bill Gates, or Warren Buffett, never get stressed out, and you shouldn't expect to either. btw..hope you were able to sense my sarcasm there...


Nice post.





I look at myself and I get scared sometimes.


I had a fire affecting 60% of the buildings two months after buying my 1[sup]st rental (triplex).


As usual, the insurance did not pay enough. 1st[/sup] day was a chock, but what the heck. I removed the tie& suite and put on the hat of the general contractor every day before 9am and after 5pm, and during lunch time. I`ve dealt with most of the inspections and learned tons from this. In the end, I managed to renovate it fully with insurance money, get a new house and refinance it above my expectations.


I have to admit that there are not too many things (tenants, pipes, etc.) that will stress/impress me from now on.


People who want to avoid stress at any price should just play those songs `I want to be a billionaire` and `If I had a million dollar` and sing along.
 

invst4profit

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There are as many ways to make money as there are people looking to find additional income sources. Being a investor is reasonably easy, being a landlord is at times extremely stressful. Choosing to be a landlord does depend on ones personality as the most difficult aspect is dealing with tenants, especially in Ontario where I strongly advise not to invest.

Unfortunately many investors wishing to start small as landlords have a twisted concept of how easy it is to simply purchase a property place a tenant and put the business on auto pilot.

Surprise, being a landlord sucks at times and many first time landlords can't sell and get out of the business soon enough.



It isn't so much that the business is so difficult it is the fact that many have no concept going in as to what difficulties to expect.

Reading books, going to seminars and, regrettably, being a REIN member does not prepare new investors very well for the realities of being a first time landlord.

Great resources regarding investing but painfully lacking in the landlord department at least in regards to Ontario.
 

housingrental

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I like Greg's above post and second it

Except for the last few lines

The more time you dedicate to books and learning from others - though not a guarantee of success - the greater your chances are of accomplishing what you want from your investment.
 

2ndstory

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[quote user=housingrental]I like Greg's above post and second it

Except for the last few lines

The more time you dedicate to books and learning from others - though not a guarantee of success - the greater your chances are of accomplishing what you want from your investment.





I agree that learning from others and reading is great. I do it all the time. The truth is though...



1. You learn best through doing.



2. Much of the writing, blogging, etc. is so repetitive that it's starting to become a little nauseating. The real estate magazines have all the same articles over and over. The bloggers keep blogging as if people are thinking about investing in real estate for the first time. How many times have we heard that JV's are the only ways of getting anywhere?



Can anyone suggest good books, sources, or blogs that go beyond the basics that we usually get?



Nik
 

bizaro86

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[quote user=housingrental]The more time you dedicate to books and learning from others - though not a guarantee of success - the greater your chances are of accomplishing what you want from your investment.





I strongly agree that learning is hugely important to investment success, but there is a definite point of diminishing returns with that. After you've read 40 books on real estate investing, how much do you expect to learn from reading the next 40 without actually implementing anything?



On the other hand, if you read 40 books, then bought 3 properties, and then read the same 40, you'd get much more out of them, because their content can be applied to your practical experience.



Definitely reading and learning is important, but at some point the next investment of time/money into theoretical learning isn't worth the investment you're making into it.



Regards,



Michael
 

Thomas Beyer

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REIN Member
I bought my first rental property in 1997. A rental pooled condo. After trying 3 and being mildly successful I bought a small 15 suiter in the year 2000. I was working full-time as a Software Engineer at the time.
I also bought stocks (and did not do so well)



The ONLY way in life to advance is to try it.



Fail your way to success !!




You never know what could happen by not doing it ! Some things you like and will succeed at. Some things you will fail at. Repeat successes and refine the techniques.



Don't repeat failures. Learn from mistakes.



Today I co-own with 500+ investors almost $100M in real estate. I continue to learn and continue to make (new) mistakes ! But I improve and continue what makes sense, and avoid repeated mistakes.



I also used to own a restaurant and lost a ton of money. But restaurants make sense with the right concept and the right partner in the right location. So I may yet own another one .. We'll see !




Hence: just do it ! Then decide on next step !



REIN has many successful members .. And many (more ?) unsuccessful ones ! Most have similar knowledge .. But the key is to repeat successes and learn from failures ! I have failed many times .. But have avoided to repeat mistakes ! A mistake is known often only after the fact ..



Hence (sensibly researched and carefully executed) ACTION is critical !




Don Campbell didn't invent real estate ... Didn't even start REIN. But he perfected it by repeating / teaching / improving successful principles and dropping stupid topics.




Just do it .. Then improve and repeat !!
 

invst4profit

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Does REIN by any chance have any in depth training on the Ontario RTA and operations of the LTB.

Does REIN in essence do any teaching on how to be a successful landlord in Ontario as opposed to a successful investor so as to prepare members for the mine field they can potentially encounter.



I realise the truth may turn off some/many Ontario investors wishing to start out on there own with a first property but believe this info essential to going in with eyes wide open.



For example does REIN provide info on the use of paralegals in representing landlords at the LTB. Or about the ambush tactics of free Duty council provided to tenants or the dirty tricks regarding maintenance issues used to delay hearings for months to the benefit of tenants getting free rent. Are new landlords advised to never accept anything other than first and last months rent and to insure they have it in hand as cash or certified prior to handing over the keys.



Is there any in the trenches landlord training provided to newbies?

Just curious as I never hear anything about that topic.
 

Thomas Beyer

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REIN Member
REIN did a 2 day event called ALIFE focused entirely on landlording techniques .. And those handouts can be purchased for mon-attendees to my knowledge for a modest fee.
 

Pindy4

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To go back to your original question Johnsu - I agree. I've reflected on my own situation and I feel, yes, that people should invest first based on personality and 2nd on life circumstances. Part of not getting stressed about tenants, I think, is to not be greedy. It's a give-take relationship. My brother "undercharges" his tenants, but in return- they're there long-term, they take care of his place (maybe not a common/ideal scenario, but it keeps him real happy and stress-free).

Did one of you commenting on this thread (no names mentioned) give a presentation in Munich a few years ago? I'm still waiting for the info you said you'd send - and in the meantime I'm buying property in Alberta this summer...

I think rather than not avoiding stress, the wiser thing to do is to not avoid risk taking. And, as mentioned by others...learn as you go along...
 

housingrental

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How many posters on this thread might have a connection to Munich?



[quote user=Pindy4]To go back to your original question Johnsu - I agree. I've reflected on my own situation and I feel, yes, that people should invest first based on personality and 2nd on life circumstances. Part of not getting stressed about tenants, I think, is to not be greedy. It's a give-take relationship. My brother "undercharges" his tenants, but in return- they're there long-term, they take care of his place (maybe not a common/ideal scenario, but it keeps him real happy and stress-free).

Did one of you commenting on this thread (no names mentioned) give a presentation in Munich a few years ago? I'm still waiting for the info you said you'd send - and in the meantime I'm buying property in Alberta this summer...

I think rather than not avoiding stress, the wiser thing to do is to not avoid risk taking. And, as mentioned by others...learn as you go along...
 

johnsu

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Hi Nik,



The problem with books and blogs is that the prespective people write from is more "about establishing expertise" rather than autobiographical. Reacting to real world situations requires one to be vulnerable, geniune and deal with the Emotional rollar coaster side of investing/property managing. But in being "real" many people don't want to go there cause they might think people might "discredit" them. But in reality, it's the emotions that cause us to "react" and do funny mistakes. That's why Real Estate investing systems is the "same ----" different pile!



Greg Habstritt is a good one to follow.
 
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RussellWestcott

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Guest
[quote user=invst4profit]Does REIN by any chance have any in depth training on the Ontario RTA and operations of the LTB.

Does REIN in essence do any teaching on how to be a successful landlord in Ontario as opposed to a successful investor so as to prepare members for the mine field they can potentially encounter.



For example does REIN provide info on the use of paralegals in representing landlords at the LTB. Or about the ambush tactics of free Duty council provided to tenants or the dirty tricks regarding maintenance issues used to delay hearings for months to the benefit of tenants getting free rent. Are new landlords advised to never accept anything other than first and last months rent and to insure they have it in hand as cash or certified prior to handing over the keys.



Is there any in the trenches landlord training provided to newbies?

Just curious as I never hear anything about that topic.




Greg, thanks for posting this response, and asking your questions. Upon first look you may think this, but not being a member you are seeing less than 20% of the whole story.



One of the core REIN` philosophies is: "Treat Your Real Estate Investing as a Business", and we are VERY clear with our members that your job as a Real Estate investor does not begin until you own the property and the most important part of your business is the day-to-day management. If you can't survive the day-to-day management, you have very little (or no) chance of making a return on your investment.



We believe that instead of 'scaring' members with horror stories and everything that can go wrong, we arm our members with the skills, systems, procedures, protocols and support to mitigate risk in all the potential challenges that can happen when running a Real Estate business. This includes how to profitably and proactively manage your properties in Ontario.



Sorry if this reads like an essay... but there is plenty to cover.



For example, the resources available to REIN` members (specifically how to be a pro-active property manager in Ontario):



** This site, that you and other Canadian Investors frequent to contribute their helpful information. Our members appreciate your contributions and please continue to offer your 'in the streets' perspective. One of the things you do not see is the members-only section of the website. This is where REIN` members go to the 'ask an expert' section where there are people on hand to help out with the following:

Legal

Accounting/ bookkeeping

Financing

Property Analysis

Joint Ventures

Multi-Family Properties

Marketing your properties

General topics



** Members have access to over 66 landlord and tenant forms, including many forms specific for Ontario. In fact, right now we have an Ontario lawyer reviewing all the Ontario leases, notices and tenant forms to make sure REIN` members have the proper forms that comply with the Ontario RTA.



At our REIN` members-only workshops (and REIN` "Interview with an Expert" Series), we support our members in the following ways to be successful property owners. These are meeting & interview topics members have been exposed to in the past 12 months (in no particular order):



** The Ontario eviction process taught by a lawyer and a professional Bailiff.



** The steps for tenant screening (finding, filtering and choosing; and most importantly, how to keep the good ones) - including a detailed 4-page flow chart of the exact procedure to follow once a tenant serves notice.



** How to manage your property manager.



** Senior steps to collecting your rents.



** How to mediate your discrepancies.



** We often have panel discussions featuring professional property managers (i.e. Adam Hoffman, Carrie Koch, Donna Collings, and Dan Pellitier). These and other REIN` members professionally manage properties on a daily basis, and on these panel discussions they spill the beans on exactly how to properly manage the landlord/tenant relationship.



** Discounts for 3 different credit check companies, including a company that will give you a full tenant profile with credit scores, past landlord & employment checks and background checks (including lawsuit searches).



** REIN` members are provided with research reports with the best places to advertise your rentals based upon traffic and which sites get the best results. As well, if a member wants a second opinion on their rental ads, we have someone at our office that will rewrite the ad and give members a marketing consultation.



** Substantial discount from a debt recovery expert who is a top debt recovery expert in Canada. (only charges REIN` members 25% of the amount recovered, where most others charge 40% - 50%).



Honestly I could go on and on here. Suffice it to say, REIN` members are armed with top quality information, education and support to be successful property owners in Ontario - but nothing beats the lessons learned from doing it... and that's where REIN` members excel. With more than 29,000+ REIN` member properties transacted, members are action takers they learn by doing, and they are supported with their actions (by REIN` and the other investors in the network).



I'll finish thie post with one final note... We are constantly adding more and more strategies to the database of knowledge available to our REIN` members, and one of my biggest focuses has been the "Interview with an Expert" series, where we interview the area experts and uncover the sophisticated strategies.



I am about to set up a series of interviews with more professional property managers in Ontario to provide even more detailed information for Ontario members (i.e. Adman Hoffman). If anyone else would be interested in being featured in this series, please contact the REIN` office and we will get the ball rolling...



Hope this helps
 

invst4profit

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I knew there was a lot if info for members not available to myself and am relieved to read that there is trench style teaching of the "Ontario system".

Obviously as only a forum member I am limited it what topics I see and generally do only see investing and individuals promoting there businesses.



I guess I was in doubt mainly because very few landlords on here were posting about there horror stories of dealing with the RTA and especially the LTB.
 

Thomas Beyer

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REIN Member
[quote user=housingrental]How many posters on this thread might have a connection to Munich?


dunno .. but I used to live there as both a student and professional .. not sure what this poster had in mind with this reference though either ..
 
R

RussellWestcott

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Guest
[quote user=invst4profit]

I guess I was in doubt mainly because very few landlords on here were posting about there horror stories of dealing with the RTA and especially the LTB.




Greg, would you ever like to consider being interviewed as an expert landlord in Ontario and we can fully flesh out many of the horror stories and how to solve them. I bet many of the people on this forum would love to hear your perspective to the business of Investing in Real Estate.



If you are interested please let me know and we can set something up
 
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