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No bailout for teh Car Industry

GarthChapman

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I have come to hope the US Federal Government lets them go into Chapter 11 and that Canada follows suit. Under that protection of Chapter 11 they can properly re-organize, just like many airlines did a few years ago. This sort of situation is exactly what this designed process is for. And it works.

Nothing any government can do will change the fact that there is about a 40% reduction in sales and therefore there are jobs that will be lost and plants that will be idled.
 

Nicola

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Good opinion piece in Macleans:http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/11/20/the-rea...tm_medium=email

Written by Andrew Coyne on Thursday, November 20, 2008

The real reason a Big Three bailout is a bad idea
The hope is that billions of dollars will succeed where hundreds of millions failed


Everyone has his own favourite story of Big Auto’s stupidity. Mine is the Great Invisible Japanese Trade Wall of the 1980s. At the time, Detroit was bellowing to the skies that Japan was keeping American cars out of its market, the better to support its case for restricting sales of Japanese cars in the U.S. If it was unclear how the Japanese were supposed to be doing this—Japan’s trade barriers were if anything rather lower than America’s—that only seemed to provoke Detroit to further heights of indignation: those inscrutable Orientals, with their mysterious, subtle ways. Of course you couldn’t see how they did it! That’s why it was so effective!

Until someone pointed out that the cars the Big Three were pressing upon the Japanese consumer were left-hand drive, suitable for driving on the right side of the road. It seems Japan drives on the left. Who knew?

Oh well. We could swap stories like this for hours—of Detroit’s confusing mélange of largely identical brands, its insipid designs and approximate quality, its overpaid workforce and cretinous management, its insistence on pushing gas-guzzlers and luxury cars out the door even as oil prices soared and the economy tanked. But however long a bill of indictment might be brought against Big Auto, that’s not why we should refuse its demands for a bailout. This isn’t about punishing Detroit for its past misdeeds. It isn’t even about the auto industry, as such. It’s about the economy as a whole, and how scarce resources are allocated between competing uses. Ultimately, it’s about physics: the simple, inescapable reality that more of one thing means less of another.

Anyone proposing to bail out the auto industry, in whatever amount, is obliged at the least to answer the question: where does the money come from? The answer is not simply “the taxpayer.” If that were all, the immediate objection—why should taxpayers be dragooned into paying for cars that consumers won’t?—might be answered: because the alternative is worse. Indeed, bailout proponents argue, not bailing out the auto industry might cost the taxpayer even more.

But the cost of such subsidies is not borne only or even primarily by the taxpayer, but by all those industries and firms that don’t get bailed out. It’s what economists call the opportunity cost: all the capital that subsidy traps in one industry is capital denied to other industries; all the sales diverted to one firm are sales diverted from its rivals; all the jobs “created” in one part of the economy are jobs destroyed elsewhere. Indeed, the cost of subsidy grows rather worse the more the subsidy “succeeds.” For then the diversion, from the efficient and competitive to the inefficient and uncompetitive, is made permanent.

Not that there’s much danger of that in the present case. The more likely scenario is that which befell the British auto industry in the 1970s: a sinkhole of declining sales and deepening losses that grows worse the more public dollars that are thrown into it, until at last the farce can no longer be sustained. But why hypothesize about the future? That’s exactly what we have been doing, in one form or another, since the original Chrysler bailout of 1980. Whether you call it subsidies, or tariffs, or “voluntary export restraints,” or innovation funds, or location incentives, we’ve been bailing out the North American auto industry for most of the last 30 years. And the only result has been a remorseless loss of market share, from 95 per cent in 1962 to 80 per cent in 1980 to 44 per cent today.

So the case for the bailout, even by the narrow measure of how it affects the auto industry, rests on the hope that billions of dollars will succeed where hundreds of millions have failed, that an industry in the hands of Nancy Pelosi and Tony Clement—who wants the industry, in return for public funds, to build “cars that people actually want to buy,” as if the industry needed him to tell it what these were—will find the wit to compete that has eluded it until now. But of course subsidy has exactly the opposite effect. It protects the industry, not so much from competition as from the consumer, just as it spares it from innovation, defends it from efficiency, saves it from sanity. Subsidy is not the solution. It’s the problem: the single biggest reason the industry is so overbuilt in the first place. Yes, the credit crisis has hit sales hard, across the industry. But you don’t notice Honda and Toyota standing around with their hands out.

But what is the alternative? To listen to the industry and its apologists, vaporization: all those factories shuttered, all those hundreds of thousands of jobs vanished, as if in a nuclear attack. But that’s not, in fact, what typically happens in a bankruptcy. Rather, GM—or Chrysler, or Ford—would gain the time and space to reschedule its debts, renegotiate its labour contracts, and otherwise reorganize itself, assuming there is any prospect of it doing so. But even in the worst-case of liquidation, the factories do not simply go up in smoke. Somebody would have to fill the demand that Detroit had previously supplied, and the fastest and cheapest way for other manufacturers, foreign or domestic, to ramp up production would be to buy up all that unused capacity.

The question, then, is not whether the North American auto industry as we have known it can be saved, but whether it is worth saving. Unless it’s the other way around.
 

wealthyboomer

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Chinese Automakers may buy GM and Chrysler
A senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.” These hints are very often followed with quick action in the Middle Kingdom. The hints were dropped just a few days after the same Chinese government gave its auto makers the go-ahead to invest abroad.
http://tinyurl.com/5hm7rt
 

Thomas Beyer

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QUOTE (wealthyboomer @ Nov 21 2008, 08:46 PM) Chinese Automakers may buy GM and Chrysler
A senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.” These hints are very often followed with quick action in the Middle Kingdom. The hints were dropped just a few days after the same Chinese government gave its auto makers the go-ahead to invest abroad.
http://tinyurl.com/5hm7rt
indeed .. cash is king these days .. and the Chinese have aplenty of cash .. so expect them to buy US and Canadian strategic assets such as pipelines, oil sands, car companies, specialty rare metal mines, banks ... !!

Why go to war .. if you can just buy stuff on the cheap ?
 

TommyK

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This reminds me of a junior mining company that I had some stocks with. The company was purchased by a Chinese company CASH. I had no complaints cuz they almost paid double than what I purchased for originally!

Now go buy GM`s stocks.. LOL
 

wealthyboomer

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QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Nov 22 2008, 12:48 PM) indeed .. cash is king these days .. and the Chinese have aplenty of cash .. so expect them to buy US and Canadian strategic assets such as pipelines, oil sands, car companies, specialty rare metal mines, banks ... !!

Why go to war .. if you can just buy stuff on the cheap ?
Currently there are Five large Alberta Oil companies that are in the play for possible takeovers. We will soon see if it will be American or Chinese Oil companies that will swoop in to scoop up the bargains.

A China oil company already owns some Alberta leases.
 

SeanMcAllister

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The overwhelming majority here seem to favour no bailout. To a point, I agree. Currently when Detroit 3 employees (line workers) are laidoff the receive 90-95% of their wages. Wow I almost feighted when I heard that. So from that perspective I agree that the 70+ good year run that they have had allowed them to make nonsensical concessions to the unions and quality remained largely stagnant or worsend. I was speaking with a supplyer who works with the US companies and the Japanese companies aswell and he noted that at the Japanese companies quality was of first importance then the worker`s burden. At the US companies it is worker burden that comes first and then quality if at all. I think that the US companies do need to go into Chapter 11 so that they can do away with the agreements that have as of late become an albatross around their necks.

The question then becomes when. I would submit that now is not the right time for them to go into bankruptcy. I think they should get the 25B now so that we can find ourselves in the same postion that we do today in a year or possibly two. But with two major distinctions. One is that Ford atleast is moving very aggressively to start "making cars people want to buy" I am thoroughly impressed with what Alan Mullaly is doing to that company. It will allow them to position themselves for the next bull market. Second and I think this is the most important is that the economy will have changed directions. Presently I believe we are living on a knife edge and it was only the fast actions of the central banks of the world bailing out the financial sector and dropping rates as if it was going out of style that is going to allow us to avoid another world wide depression. So if 3 companies that represent by themselves a half trillion dollars in revenue go under it could be the match to touchhole. I think if that they are allowed to live on life support for another 12 months or so and then go into chapter 11 theyll have the opportunity to be the proverbial phoenix.

The best way to descibe my logic is to give an analogy. A surgeon will not operate on a patient unless that patient is stabilized. Our economy needs to be stabilized before we start cutting off limbs.

Sean McAllister, P.Eng.
 

DragonflyProperties

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Hi all,I would like to add this column to the discussion. It is from the November 22nd edition of the Globe and Mail (Globe British Columbia). I am not in favor of big bailouts either.

Look to the future, Campbell (BC Premier) says: the normal we knew is gone.

Bailouts keep industry trapped in the past.

Excerpts:

B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell is not one of those waiting for things to return to normal. The way he sees it, normal no longer exists.

"People want to say that what`s going on is a perfect storm," the Premier said in an interview in his office. "It`s not a perfect storm. It`s a seismic shift. An earthquake has hit our global economy and everyone is dying for things to be the same and it`s never going to be the same again."

But far from being morose about what`s unfolding around him, Mr. Campbell seems almost excited about the opportunities financial chaos creates. He thinks the economic crisis will force governments in Canada and around the world to make changes that should have been made years ago.

Just as Mr. Campbell is an enemy of deficits, he is not a big fan of bailouts either. Rather, he says, what the country needs to do to address some of the bigger economic challenges facing it is to tap into Canadians` creativity, innovation and drive. These are the things he says you sacrifice when, in the case of the auto-parts industry, for instance, you simply "subsidize one sector of one industry."

Mr. Campbell says he`s concerned about the economic future of provinces such as Ontario because, he thinks, the tendency will be to say "how do we get back to where we were before. And there is no before any more. It`s always going to have to be about the future. So [Ontario] has a big challenge and they are going to have to restructure their manufacturing plants and think about how you add value."

W
hile that might seem a little cold-hearted, especially coming from a premier whose province has not, as yet, been walloped by the economic crisis, I take his point. Why should $15-an-hour retail clerks and $22-an-hour mill workers in B.C., or anywhere else for that matter, subsidize – in the form of a bailout – an automobile industry that pays its workers $70 an hour just so they can continue making cars and trucks no one wants?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/politics/

Keith
 

JohnS

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This is why I like this board. Before, I wouldn`t have really thought about this issue that much, and I wouldn`t have formed an opinion on it. But, from reading others` opinions, it forces me to confront an issue I wouldn`t have otherwise. So, thanks all!

And, to go along with it, some of you might be familiar with Seth Godin`s works. (I believe his book, "Purple Cow", was on Don`s recommended reading list a while back.) Anyway, I read Seth`s blog regularly, and here`s what he had to say about the bailout.

http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/

Have a good one, all!

JohnS
 

DragonflyProperties

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Hi all,

Here is another article for the discussion. From the November 20th edition of the Globe and Mail (Report on Business). Excerpts:

In its quest to secure the billions of dollars in help it needs to avoid bankruptcy protection, General Motors [GM-N] has developed a simple narrative. "We got caught," said David Paterson, the man charged with selling the GM story in Canada – caught by the financial meltdown and by a collapse in demand for new cars.

Blame the recession? Yes, but also blame the end of easy money. The Detroit Three spent years training their customers not to buy vehicles without a subsidy – usually in the form of 2-per-cent or zero-per-cent loans. They also taught them not to bother saving for one, because no down payment was required. (Your columnist, when buying a Pontiac Vibe five years ago, was practically admonished by the salesman for putting $2,000 toward the purchase. Didn`t I have a better use for the money, he wanted to know?)

Those days are gone now, probably for a long time. Cheap financing is still available, but mostly for those with good ratings and some cash in their wallets.

So here`s the $25-billion question: In the era of tighter money, how far will sales bounce back? "The ability to get back to 171/2 [million U.S. sales] without cheap financing is near zero," says Dennis DesRosiers, Canada`s top automotive consultant. Still, he`s optimistic. "Can they get back, though, to 151/2 million, perhaps 16 [million]? Probably. Would that be enough to give the vehicle companies the ability to manage through this crisis on their own? Probably."

But there is a "nightmare scenario," Mr. DesRosiers says. There are approximately 240 million U.S. residents who are old enough to drive, and already a slightly larger number of vehicles in the nation`s garages, for an ownership rate of just over 100 per cent. This could drop. "Canada`s ownership is only 74 per cent," Mr. DesRosiers says. "So could the U.S. get along with 90-per-cent ownership rather than 100-per-cent ownership? Absolutely. It would be a cultural shift."


Let`s do some quick math. Suppose the debt crisis causes more Americans to take the bus. Assume the ownership rate dips, and the number of U.S. vehicles drops by 5 per cent, to about 233 million. Then suppose they begin hanging on to their cars a year or two longer, so that only 6 per cent of them replace their vehicles in any given year (instead of 7 per cent).


The result? U.S. auto sales of 14 million. Would that be enough to keep GM, Ford and Chrysler alive? I don`t know. But I do know that Stephen Harper and Dalton McGuinty should be asking the question before they sign up for a few billion in loan guarantees to Detroit.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...obColumnsBlogs/

Keith
 

DragonflyProperties

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Hi all,Another article from the "no bailout" camp from the November 24th edition of the Globe and Mail (Report on Business). Excerpts:After the tailpipe swindle, Detroit Three don`t deserve a cent
US auto makers need to hit bottom

The American auto makers want a bailout they don`t deserve. The European auto makers don`t need a bailout but will demand one if GM,
Ford
and Chrysler
get their way. Neither should get anything from taxpayers. Detroit`s Big Three, two of which have turned into small-capitalization stocks trading as options on bankruptcy (Chrysler is privately held), have been expertly gaming the U.S. government and its regulators for decades.

In retrospect, the successful lobbying efforts were Pyrrhic victories for the car makers and utter defeats for the economy and the environment. Shamelessly, they are now trying to set up the government for one more swindle. And it just may succeed.

Detroit`s biggest swindle of all time was manipulating CAFE - the corporate average fuel economy standard - to sanction the launch of vast armadas of gas-gobbling SUVs and light trucks.

CAFE was created by the U.S. Congress after the 1974 oil embargo, which triggered an unprecedented rise in gasoline prices. The program`s goal was to double the fuel efficiency of new cars by 1985, while reducing tailpipe emissions. It worked, to a degree: As cars became smaller, and engines went from eight cylinders to six or four, mileage figures improved substantially.

But there was a big loophole and Detroit exploited it to the hilt.

CAFE imposed far higher fuel economy standards on passenger cars than on light trucks. At the time, a light truck was almost always a working vehicle - pickups for contractors, manure haulers for farmers and the like.

The Detroit Three found devious ways to classify more and more of their products as light trucks, allowing them to make monster vehicles, like the four-tonne Ford Excursion (dubbed the Ford Valdez by the Sierra Club), without having to worry about their fuel consumption figures.


In time, minivans and SUVs came to dominate the North American auto market. The Detroit Three loved them because they had fat profit margins, thanks in good part to the lack of engineering and innovation that went into them. They were essentially low-tech agricultural vehicles with fancy interiors.


Now look what`s happening. Demand for these brutes has fallen off a cliff because they are expensive to buy and their thirsty engines drink like students at a frat party. Technological innovation suffered.

Incredibly, the Ford Model T, produced between 1908 and 1927, got better mileage than the SUV-laden Ford fleet by the middle of the current decade.


Having milked the CAFE loophole for everything it was worth, the Detroit Three have now devised another game to keep them going: A $25-billion (U.S.) government bailout.

Throwing taxpayers` money at the Detroit Three won`t make them better car companies any more than the CAFE manipulation did. They need to hit bottom and rebuild themselves.


There is so much wrong with bailing out the auto makers. The European side of the business doesn`t need help any more than, say, the steel makers or the airlines, which are going through hard times too. The American auto makers simply don`t deserve it after decades of mismanagement and misguided lobbying.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ery=eric+reguly

Keith
 

DragonflyProperties

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And another ... by Gwyn Morgan (retired founding CEO of EnCana Corp.). Excerpts:Citing pending bailouts of U.S. auto companies and government aid pledged to its competitors in Germany and France, the group said: "We need a bridge that mitigates the immediate impact of the economic crisis and helps the U.K. auto sector stay on course for its long-term priorities." Meanwhile, anticipating that the Detroit Three will be bailed out, European auto makers are collectively calling for €40-billion ($50-billion) in government-backed loans from the European Investment Bank, supposedly to help develop cleaner cars. Even Japan has vowed to ensure its vitally important auto sector isn`t disadvantaged by subsidies from other governments.
Like the subprime mortgage crisis that started in the U.S. and spread like a global pandemic, the auto-sector crisis has spawned calls for government action. The urgency of each plea is measured by a given firm`s remaining cash resources divided by its monthly cash "burn rate." While General Motors
CEO Rick Wagoner uses GM`s alarmingly small number of solvent months remaining as the centrepiece of his bailout pleas to the U.S. Congress, American law makers and taxpayers would be well-advised to reflect on what the combined burn rates of the Detroit Three would cost, and just how and when government support would end.

Supporters of Canadian bailouts cite three main arguments: GM, Ford
and Chrysler
are just too important to let fail; the help is only needed until the economic crisis is over; and governments are helping the banks, so why not the auto sector? Let`s examine each of these arguments.

First, the Detroit Three are important employers, especially in Ontario, but there are no Canadian-headquartered auto firms, and Honda and Toyota plants also provide jobs. Does it really matter whether Canadian auto plants are controlled from Tokyo, Berlin or Detroit?

Second, virtually no one thinks North American big auto can survive without radical surgery. These firms are burdened with legacy union agreements that make the cost of a line worker uncompetitive, and they face billions of dollars in unfunded pension liabilities.

Third, government helped out the banks, why not us? On the surface this seems relevant, but it reflects a fundamental lack of understanding of today`s financial systems. The banks are intermediaries that serve as a storage place for personal savings, and they facilitate virtually every financial transaction. Without the confidence of personal savers and without the ability of businesses to access these funds, the entire economy would grind to a halt. It`s not about bailing out the bankers ... it`s about saving the entire financial system.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ery=gwyn+morgan

Keith
 

Jack

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QUOTE The media has mis-represented this thing. It will be loan guarantees, not a cash bail-out.

And it has to happen. We are not alone in this. The Americans will act, and we will have to act in concert. If not we will lose our out-sized position in the North American car making market. Remember that we make about 8-9 times the number of vehicles that we actually purchase.

Does anyone think we could let this thing go - lose 100,000 to 200,000 jobs? Does anyone think a minority government could survive that?

Bang on, Garth. Completely agree.

What`s most bothersome about this situation is the 2nd, 3rd, even 4th generation auto-workers who`ve wanted nothing else but to work hard for a good company, make an honest living, raise a family, do their thing. And yet they`re driven into the ground by these Ivy League MBA types with no common sense. Those lost jobs would be a huge shock to the economy, and it makes sense for the government to bail them out with a loan
, not a "bailout".
 

Jack

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Oddly enough, it`s been announced this morning that new auto sales lead the gains in Canadian retail sales for the month of September.

It`s the sector`s first monthly rise in eight months, and the strongest gain since March of `07.
 

mcgregok

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The goverment of past forced Air Canada to take over Canadian Air putting air Canada in a finanical tight spot . Initially they tried to prop up Canadian Air saying we needed 2 carriers for competition plus it would amont to job losses. Canadian Air went under anyway. Since ,Air Canada has been in trouble and a new, STRONGER airliner took Canadian Air`s place WEST JET. Let GM go the way of Canadian Air. A stronger car industry will emerge.
 

SeanMcAllister

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QUOTE (Jack @ Nov 25 2008, 01:09 AM)
Bang on, Garth. Completely agree.



What's most bothersome about this situation is the 2nd, 3rd, even 4th generation auto-workers who've wanted nothing else but to work hard for a good company, make an honest living, raise a family, do their thing. And yet they're driven into the ground by these Ivy League MBA types with no common sense. Those lost jobs would be a huge shock to the economy, and it makes sense for the government to bail them out with a loan, not a "bailout".






You really think that. Have ever even been in an Autoplant? Yes it is the "little guy" fighting for his chance to work hard and live the Canadian/American dream and it is the evil MBAs who run as many successful companies as unsuccessful ones who shamelessly work tirelessly to put the little guy down. C'mon, the reality is that the guy/gal on the line is equally responsible as management. It is the person on the line who assembles the car; bottom line. So all of those low quality vehicles that Detroit produced for decades were not by MBAs. It was also the union and the little guys who went on strike at the drop of a hat to get the benefits that society at large probably supported at the time and are now faulting them for. This assumption that management is exclusively responsible for their current predicament is a fallacy. Both sides of the equation are equally responsible.



It is my understanding that what they are asking for is low interest loan guarantees because the current financial crisis is making it next to impossible to get financing presently (hence the difference between Ford & GM, about a year or so ago Ford leveraged everything they had including their name for about 25B in loans, GM did not. hence they are cash poor) and if you can the rates are harsh. It is the media that is calling this a bailout. Such is my understanding I could be wrong please correct me if I am.



As for the point about the evil auto companies shamelessly exploiting a hole in the CAFE legislation. That is what companies do. They sell products in the most profitable areas. It is their job to make the shareholders money. It is governments responsibility to close loopholes. Since 1975 or whatever the article said the US govt couldnt close that loophole? Having them not sell SUVs and trucks would be like Apple not selling its iphone or ipod. The real issue is that they let their other product lines fall apart and thought the good times would never end.



Sorry for the rants but I like to play devil's advocate.



Sean
 

SeanMcAllister

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Here is an article that you probably wouldnt find otherwise.

U.S. auto industry closing great divide in quality, wages
Washington Times 11/25/2008
Author: David M. Dickson
(Copyright 2008)



U.S. automakers have made major progress in recent years closing both the labor-cost gap and the quality gap with foreign companies manufacturing autos in the United States.

"Conditions are in place for the wages and benefits of workers at Detroit automakers to be lower in several years than the U.S. wages and benefits paid by international manufacturers," such as Toyota and Honda, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research (CAR) based in Ann Arbor, Mich., which receives a portion of its funding from Detroit auto firms and Toyota.


"This is a huge change," Mr. Cole emphasized.


The new labor contracts that the United Auto Workers (UAW) union signed with the Big Three last fall "really brought the UAW much closer to parity with Japanese transplants," said Aaron Bragman, an auto analyst at IHS Global Insight.


Meanwhile, Detroit automakers have been making "leaps and bounds" of progress on quality in recent years, which "are now manifesting themselves in three-year dependability surveys," said Neal Oddes, an auto analyst for J.D. Power and Associates.


Before contract negotiations between the UAW and General Motors commenced last year, UAW workers earned between $70 and $75 per hour in wages and benefits, Mr. Cole said. International firms paid their nonunion workers about $45 per hour in wages and benefits. The hourly cost differential was between $25 and $30.


Once the historic provisions of last year`s four-year labor contract are fully implemented, the Big Three eventually will be paying their unionized workers an average of $40 to $45 per hour in wages and benefits, Mr. Cole told The Washington Times in an interview. That range is as low or lower than the wage-and-benefit package earned by workers at Toyota and Honda plants, he said.


"The gap in labor costs that had previously existed between Detroit-based auto companies and the foreign transplant operations will be largely or completely eliminated by the end of the contract," UAW President Ron Gettelfinger told the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee on Tuesday.


Before the same committee, Peter Morici, business professor at the University of Maryland, argued that the concessions were still not enough to make Detroit competitive. "Today, the Detroit Three, though improved in productivity and with lower labor costs thanks to concessions from the United Auto Workers, are still not as competitive as the Japanese transplants," he said.


The UAW had big incentives to make the concessions it did. "Over the years, the union had won many battles, but it realized last year it was on the verge of losing the war," said Gary N. Chaison, a professor of industrial relations at Clark University in Worcester, Mass. That`s why the UAW agreed to so many concessions during 2007 contract negotiations, he explained.


To "substantially" close the labor-cost gap, "the UAW made incredible efforts to address legacy costs" in health care and pensions associated with its older and retired workers, said Hal Stack, the director of the Labor Studies Center at Wayne State University in Detroit.


The biggest changes in the UAW contract involve the creation of a company-funded and UAW-managed trust fund to pay for retiree health care; less-generous health care and pension plans for new workers hired by Detroit automakers; and a two-tiered wage structure.


New hires performing non-core, non-assembly work at the Big Three will be paid a wage that starts at $14 per hour, which is half the $28 that existing non-core employees earn. Transplants, which pay about $27 per hour, "deliberately set wages high enough to make it unattractive for workers to join a union," Mr. Stack said.


GM has estimated that about 70 percent of its current workers will be eligible for retirement before the four-year contract expires. Many buyouts and retirements of UAW workers will lead to a new wave of people earning the lower wage and receiving considerably less-generous pension and health care benefits, Mr. Bragman of IHS Global Insight said.


Mr. Cole of CAR estimates that GM will eventually have a third of its work force earning the lower wage and receiving reduced benefits.


The new workers earning the lower-tier wage "will receive a totally different benefit plan that eliminates defined-benefit pensions as well as the companies` liability for future retiree health care," a recent CAR study reported. Non-core workers who transfer into "core" positions will still retain the second-tier benefits package.


Through a so-called Voluntary Employee Beneficiary Association (VEBA), the UAW will take over responsibility for paying health benefits to retirees in 2010. This will remove a $47 billion liability from the balance sheet of GM, which is required to contribute nearly $32 billion to the VEBA, including $16 billion from an existing health care trust and additional payments over the years.


One reason GM, Ford and Chrysler need a bridge loan from the federal government is to finance their 2009 and 2010 scheduled payments to VEBA, said Mr. Bragman, who noted that $25 billion may not be enough, considering the cash drain from operations.


"Once the automakers get those legacy health care costs off their balance sheets, they will be in much better shape," Mr. Bragman added. "They have become much more innovative, and there is a night-and-day difference from five to 10 years ago."


"American brands have been reducing the quality gap in recent years," Mr. Oddes of J.D. Power said in an interview. "We see a lot more American brands in the top-three car segment" in the Initial Quality Survey, he said, "and we see no reason for this trend to be declining." He said it was noteworthy that seven GM and Ford brands ranked above the industry average in 2008.


In J.D. Power`s 2008 Vehicle Dependability Study, which examines the deterioration of vehicle quality during the first three years of ownership, four American car brands (Mercury, Cadillac, Buick and Lincoln) ranked among the top eight, Mr. Oddes pointed out.


Mr. Cole of CAR said Ford and GM products were essentially equal in quality compared with foreign brands.


Auto sales have declined 15 percent through the first 10 months of 2008. By one estimate, the number of vehicles sold by the entire U.S. industry was the lowest in October for any other month since World War II, after adjusting for changes in population. Compared with October 2007, GM vehicle sales last month plunged 45 percent, Chrysler`s fell 35 percent, Ford`s decreased 29 percent, Honda`s declined 25 percent and Toyota`s were off 23 percent.
 

Jack

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QUOTE Have ever even been in an Autoplant?

No. Have you?

QUOTE Yes it is the "little guy" fighting for his chance to work hard and live the Canadian/American dream and it is the evil MBAs who run as many successful companies as unsuccessful ones who shamelessly work tirelessly to put the little guy down. C`mon, the reality is that the guy/gal on the line is equally responsible as management.

Wrong
. The guys operating the assembly line don`t have the same responsibilities as the executives. They don`t make the kind of decisions that carry with them the kind of consequences that the executives do; ergo, they are not paid like the executives are. You`re compensated, in society, by the complexity and consequences of decisions that you`re responsible for. Unioners don`t decide where to build, they don`t decide where to source product, they don`t decide on design, they don`t decide on marketing, they don`t decide on the capital structure, they don`t decide on anything. They just do the work.
 

EdRenkema

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QUOTE (Jack @ Nov 25 2008, 12:09 AM) .
What`s most bothersome about this situation is the 2nd, 3rd, even 4th generation auto-workers who`ve wanted nothing else but to work hard for a good company, make an honest living, raise a family,

Really?
How many of these do you know personally?
I know lots that work for `Generous Motors` as we call it.
These people are not victims believe me, they knew full well what they were getting into and chose to do so because of the ridiculous $ and benefits they get at those jobs where they literally only work about half their shifts. I have a choice and they have a choice we all make that choice each and every day. I`m fed up with hearing about the victims who go home when they`re finished crying to their decadent lifestyles paid for by ridiculous union wages. I know some of them who saw the writing on the wall and got out while the getting was good. I myself am living on half the take home wage I was previously for the last year.
No bailout/guaranteed loan for me and I didn`t ask!
 
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