Enjoy competition? Becoming a REALTOR is for you!

[JDaley]

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Feb 12 2010, 08:43 AM) This is my fear as well.

However we may see some press about some poor young couple that bought a converted condo from a "shady investor" and is now financially ruined... Or granny that didn`t/couldn`t read the fine print which says her coin collection is included in the deal. Or a middle aged divorcee that`s up on meds and isn`t in a proper emotional state to sign a contract but does so... There will be some that save some money but also a few that lose everything. Sucks for them but the sad sack stories may well generate some positive press for realtors.

This is bs. Homes are continually listed with incorrect information and who says their aren`t already unethical brokers operating now, in fact, most would argue there are already too many crooked brokers. Boy RE Brokers are something else - talk about misinformation. You`re fighting a losing battle. Yeah, lets pay brokers excessive fees to protect us from shady dealers, sounds like a wolf in sheep`s clothing - ridiculous. I think what realtors fear most is the loss of their commissions.

If you`d like to control corruption in real estate (transactions), the CREA would be best advised to accredit the profession. Train brokers through the colleges and universities like doctors, accountants and engineers and that to some extent will help control the unethical behavior that is seen in the profession. For instance, could you imagine a doctor who practices part time to supplement their regular income ?

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (TheVancouverMarket @ Feb 11 2010, 09:06 AM) Someone gave me a wonderful analogy the other day regarding this issue:

Imagined you owned a successful second hand car lot and you were in the business of selling cars. You would have significant fixed and variable costs to run your business (rents, sales, marketing costs etc). You would have invested over the years considerable time, energy and money in the business. Perhaps you are the only car seller in a 100km radius. But then John Doe comes along and says to the owner of the car business and says:

"I am just gonna park my used car right here at the front of your sales lot. I feel like selling it. Hope you don`t mind. Oh and here`s $99. My contact numbers on the front windscreen, so I don`t need anyone from you company to help me. Buyers can just call me direct. Thanks. See you later"

Is that a fair analogy ?

Personally, I am very excited by the fact that this issue is front and centre and all over the news and I think it`s very important that there is so much discussion around the subject. Lots of good things will come out of it for realtors and consumers.
sorry Big issues with the analogy:
- realtors do not own properties they sell as Marque correctly mentioned, the selling cars business owner does own his cars. monopoly risk with RE sys.
- you are the only car seller in a 100km radius. want it to be a fair analogy? change it to "you are the only car seller in CANADA."
argument doesn`t sound that convincing any more, eh. at least now you have a better analogy. Cheers.

 

[luckyluciano]

QUOTE (investmart @ Feb 14 2010, 01:23 AM) sorry Big issues with the analogy:
- realtors do not own properties they sell as Marque correctly mentioned, the selling cars business owner does own his cars. monopoly risk with RE sys.
- you are the only car seller in a 100km radius. want it to be a fair analogy? change it to "you are the only car seller in CANADA."
argument doesn`t sound that convincing any more, eh. at least now you have a better analogy. Cheers.


Believe it or not, I have been in the business before the personal computer. I`d love for sellers to post their listings on MLS of $99 and have buyers buy directly. The business would be reduced to web base service of posting listings on the internet and buyers would simply buy them. NO commissions, NO agents, NO brokers, NO franchises, NO Real Estate boards.

ARE YOU REALLY THAT NAIVE? The system sells 90% of the real estate not because of the internet. This is simply a tool to assist. It can easily be destroyed or taken away and guess what....I would still be selling homes....even more of them because I wouldn`t have to compete with your realtor from Oakville coming into my town taking my listings and selling my buyers. They would come directly to me.

WEBSITES DO NOT SELL HOUSES...PEOPLE DO! If websites did sell houses then the private sites would rule wouldn`t they?

What all they Monday morning quarterbacks here do not see is the entire system behind the sale of the house. The offices, secretaries, phone systems, computers, photocopy machines, administrators, real estate boards, franchises, training services etc. How do you THINK these get paid for. Are they FREE?

I hope the NAIVE competition bureau does a fine job at bringing this system back to the stone age! Let the Savy sellers list with the discount brokers for $99 and let the buyers buy directly from the sellers. God knows the discount brokers are not the ones making the Real Estate selling system function, they are just piggy backing the machine. I hope the discount listers put the boards and franchises out of business out of business, most of them sqeak by as it is.

I`ll just go back to selling exclusively like in the old days, in my local market, paid by those that appreciate and won`t have to share with the internet junkies. No more big real estate boards, no more big franchises, no more big internet. JUST BIGGER PROFITS FOR ME!

Wake up, the system is already too competitive! If you don`t understand this, I dare you...get your licence and walk in my shoes. Commissions have come down due to competition. They used to be 6-10%, now they average around 4% total. Try my business for 1 year....you won`t be talking so high and mighty. It is a competitive system, agents charge whatever they want, selling agents give kickbacks. It sells 90% because it is effective. I dare you, get your license and you will feel competition and rejection that makes the average person cringe. Talk is cheep. Come experience my world for the last 24 years then I`ll be the one critiquing you.

Go ahead bring the internet bases system down. I repeat, WEBSITES DO NOT SELL HOUSES...PEOPLE DO!

 

[Medicdude]

Great post! For a Realtor in training like myself this has been a great read.

 

[luckyluciano]

So True:


Don Lawby, president and COO of Century 21 Canada hit the nail on the head when he says “If organized real estate had stayed where it originally was designed to be – providing information and data between members and not dealing directly with the consumer – we wouldn’t be in this position today.”Lawby added, “Maybe it’s time for the industry to go back to its roots and just share data between licensed professionals, not with consumers
We need to can the Public MLS until some future time when things get figured out. Its like a cancer that needs to be removed. Crea needs to leave the marketing of properties to the Brokers and stick to what their core business is, of helping real estate companies share listing information back and forth on their listings.

 

[luckyluciano]

Another beautiful summary;

David Murray MacLean says:
November 11, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I cannot quite wrap my mind around why the Competition Bureau feels that allowing members of the public to post their listings directly to the MLS (so called mere postings) will be what “solves” issues of competition in our industry. Of course, this pre-concludes that no alternate means currently exist in the marketplace for consumers when it comes to listing their property for sale without working directly with a Realtor.
In fact, there are already numerous websites in the marketplace where FSBO’s (private sellers) can post their listings, should they feel they possess the means and ability to sell without the services of a Realtor. Examples of these sites include The Property Guys, For Sale by Owner, By The Owner, among many others. And then there is the proverbial, free for all dumping ground of real estate listings, CraigsList. The irony here seems to be that even with the plethoric advent of FSBO websites, a significantly high number of private sellers still end up contracting a real estate professional to assist them with the marketing of their property. The National Association of Realtors (NAR) in the United States has kept ongoing statistics on this phenomenon.
If real estate sales was as simple as many private sellers convince themselves it might be, then wouldn’t the ushering in of the Internet, and the wide range of marketing and advertising it seemed to promise have prevented these private sellers from eventually contacting an agent to assist them; given they should have been able to sell privately via these new, and miraculous electronic marketing means now available.
Competition does exist in the marketplace. Also, these FSBO websites are not free, but charge varied fees for their services, which include mailing out a For Sale sign to stick on a private seller’s lawn. But more importantly, in organized real estate services and commission structures are not set in stone, but are consistently negotiated between sales representatives and their clients across the county on a daily basis. Does anyone remember when listing commission was more commonly six percent? The current lowering of commissions in the marketplace is the result of consumer choice and consumer pressure.
However, The Competition Bureau seems continually obsessed with the singular issue of MLS access, but the lens from which they’re viewing this issue is simplistic and skewed. The larger value of the MLS system isn’t simply about market exposure. If that was true, the multitude of alternative listing websites would have solved the exposure issue for private sellers long ago, perhaps rendering this argument mute.
The often overlooked value of the MLS system resides within its historical data and sales record keeping. This is its core foundation, and the key to what makes it so successful. Realtors assist sellers and buyers in the understanding of market conditions, property market values, neighbourhood sales trends and statistics. Therefore, why should just anyone, and specifically someone whose “choice” it would be to not engage a realtor benefit from the fruits of that profession’s main marketing and sales tool?
Perhaps the biggest mystery to me is why the copyrighted MLS system, which has been built, maintained, and paid for by licensed professionals suddenly has an “obligation” to be utilized by anyone who doesn’t actually want to use the services of the professionals whose site this belongs to? There is something inherently wrong and overly presumptive about this expectation of right to access.
Isn’t this like saying that anyone with a burning desire to sing and dance should have access to the stage of the Royal Alex? I worked in theatre for many years, and if only access to the big time where so easy. No, one had to “pay ones dues”, study, practice, and rehearse, and even that activity promised no guarantees. But this new “entrepreneurial spirit” which is the malevolent undercurrent driving the current assault of CREA seems to think this should be a given.
I cannot think of any other professional organization, database, records system or communication mechanism that would allow the kind of invasive access the competition bureau is demanding. And perhaps the biggest irony central to this current battle is that the complaint mongering and litigation that has brought about this industry maelstrom was not instigated by a throng of irate “Joe Consumers”, but rather a couple of frustrated entrepreneurs who were told that if they didn’t follow long established rules of conduct and professional obligation they couldn’t reap the rewards they were demanding. Is this current fight really about “consumer choice” or actually about sour professional grapes? I think the huge, monetary amounts involved in current lawsuits clearly define it as the latter.
While I am not privy to the resources available to CREA to wage a legal response, or the advice of it’s various legal counsel, I personally feel that the this is a fight worth fighting. summary;

 

[gwasser]

QUOTE (luckyluciano @ Feb 15 2010, 09:43 AM) Another beautiful summary;

David Murray MacLean says:
November 11, 2009 at 9:51 PM
I cannot quite wrap my mind around why the Competition Bureau feels that allowing members of the public to post their listings directly to the ......
While I am not privy to the resources available to CREA to wage a legal response, or the advice of it`s various legal counsel, I personally feel that the this is a fight worth fighting. summary;

Thanks for all the input and a great discussion. I never realized how emotional a topic `the realtor profession` is. It for sure is a very competitve profession. And in down markets you see realtors fall like flies. If it is truly so monopolized how come that in a large vibrant city such as Calgary, only 1000 realtors can make a respectable living and the other 4000 kind of scrape by?

I have learned that the profession of realtor is all about service. Yes you can catch a few commission deals from friends and relative. But there is no staying power. Why would that be if those commissions were so uncompetive? Why would indeed anybody buy from realtors with their MLS system if it wasn`t for the entire package.

I personally think the Competition Bureau is out to lunch. But as always, the market will adjust. It reminds me of the telephone companies. When that market was `opened up for competition`, numerous new market entrants showed up including telemarketers trying to sell you the `cheapest rates`. BCE, Telus and other phone companies were declared dead and the end of high phonebills was near.

Has anyone seen his/her monthly smartphone bill lately? Add to that the kids` bills? Wow, I wish I had that kind of cash flow. And the newbies?? Oops, they`re gone! I foresee the same with real estate. The more things change the more they remain the....

 

[wealthyboomer]

QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 15 2010, 03:44 PM) Has anyone seen his/her monthly smartphone bill lately? Add to that the kids` bills? Wow, I wish I had that kind of cash flow. And the newbies?? Oops, they`re gone! I foresee the same with real estate. The more things change the more they remain the....

I`m loving my Phone bills now compared to years ago....they are soooo much LESS expensive.

 

[gwasser]

QUOTE (wealthyboomer @ Feb 16 2010, 02:58 PM) I`m loving my Phone bills now compared to years ago....they are soooo much LESS expensive.

You mean you`re an empty nester? I am getting there, one kid is gone and one more cell phone account to go (soon I hope).

 

[wealthyboomer]

QUOTE (gwasser @ Feb 16 2010, 08:18 PM) You mean you`re an empty nester? I am getting there, one kid is gone and one more cell phone account to go (soon I hope).

If a kid wants a cellphone, they have to pay for it themselves. It isn`t a life `necessity`.
If they`re out and a phone call is that important, use a payphone.

How did anyone ever exist in the 70`s, 80`s, early 90`s?

 

[EdRenkema]

QUOTE (wealthyboomer @ Feb 18 2010, 02:16 AM) If a kid wants a cellphone, they have to pay for it themselves. It isn`t a life `necessity`.

My thoughts exactly, my neighbour complains about having to buy a case of Coke for his teenage son every time he gets groceries-I said to him, `those aren`t groceries and why are you buying it and then complaining about it?`

 

[JimWhitelaw]

Have you actually tried to find a pay phone recently? There`s not many left and they are disappearing fast. I read recently (sorry, can`t recall the source) that the number of payphones in Canada is declining by over 10,000 per year. New neighborhoods and shopping centers etc aren`t even having them installed now.

Anyways my phone bills are a lot cheaper now than they were before long distance service was unbundled from basic service and brought in competition for LD service.

 

[gwasser]

QUOTE (JimWhitelaw @ Feb 18 2010, 10:59 AM) Have you actually tried to find a pay phone recently? There`s not many left and they are disappearing fast. I read recently (sorry, can`t recall the source) that the number of payphones in Canada is declining by over 10,000 per year. New neighborhoods and shopping centers etc aren`t even having them installed now.

Anyways my phone bills are a lot cheaper now than they were before long distance service was unbundled from basic service and brought in competition for LD service.

With VOIP phones bills are significantly lower, but add to that the smart phone for me, my wife`s and an internet stick so I can get internet access on my laptop nearly anywhere and the bill has never been as high.
I just cut my daughter`s bill off and my son isn`t interested he Skype`s and net meets. Also uses his ipod for e-mail where-ever there is a connection.