Edmonton mother in law suites zoning violation

[stepchuk]

Looking for anyone that might be able to give me some advice here. We recently purchased a SFD in Edmonton with a mother in law suite in the basement. Over the past 5 years of investing, we have about added about 15 very similar properties to our portfolio. The suite, like most in the City of Edmonton is illegal, and the zoning is RF1. A neighbor complained about the suite, even though the tenants living in the basement are two of the nicest, quietest people you would ever meet. Ideal tenants that anyone out there would be happy to have.

A municipal enforcement officer has now contacted us to inspect the suite, and has advised me that it will have to be shut down due to the fact that our SFD does not meet the criteria for a legal suite in an RF1 zone, and that we are in violation of bylaw #12800 Obviously I am quite concerned about this, as our tenants are great people with a lease, and this property will become a major alligator without the dual income of the up/ down suites.

Just wondering if anyone out there has had any experience with this type of situation before? This is the first I have ever heard of it with the city having such an affordable housing crunch. Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

[RebeccaBryan]

I have 2 properties like that with R1 zoning. There have been suites in them for years and no one has complained. I wonder if you can appeal it or ask for specific reasons as to why they would shut it down. I wouldn`t roll over, I would ask for a hearing and state my case. Every situation is unique. It doesn`t make sense that one neighbor complaint can cause so much grief. Maybe try and get it rezoned.

My Mom is currently renovating her 6-plex that is only supposed to be a 4 plex. This is in Edmonton. She had an inspector come in and tell her all the walls had to have 3/4 inch gyproc on them because the suites weren`t to fire code. They never mentioned anything about the 2 extra suites in the basement. Before starting her reno`s that had to be started by May 1/08, she went to the city to ask if she needed to change it back to a 4-plex. They told her no, and that if she did all the renovations she could keep it as a 6-plex and it`s not zoned for that. She will have an official sent to her confirming this.

What I am saying is, it really depends who you get at the city. There are many that have vendetta`s against the wealthy and this may be what you have run into, both with the neighbor and with the city employee.

I would fight for what is right, proceeding with concrete facts that would support your case.

 

[MONEY]

You should have done your due diligence first, and not count on the suite for income. There is a reason why areas are zoned `single residential`. You`re paying property taxes for `single family` use. The infastructure has been developed for such zoning, and you are clearly in violation of the law.Oh, and good luck with your insurance company should any fire happen. They will most likely deny your claim, because of the illegal use of the suite.

If your home is in an area of zoning changes, then, you `might` have a chance at having the zoning change.(That being that the Side Lot Line abuts a lot in an Industrial, Commercial, Row Housing, or Apartment Zone, )
But good luck with that, as it will cost you $, and you won`t be able to have tenants in that suite while you`re dealing with `city hall` on the issue. Plus you will have costs involved of bringing the suite up to code for allowing a suite, if such a zoning is provided.


Zoning is like a "community insuarance policy" to protect property from the intrusion of undesirable uses while promoting its best use consistent with private property rights and community concerns.

 

[ChrisDavies]

There`s no harm in applying for a zoning change. I assume it meets the fire code...

 

[GarthChapman]

Hi Chris,

Regarding `Money`s` comments on your insurance coverage - as long as your insurer knows about the number of kitchens and residenses in the property, you are fully insured. I have done the necessary research into this subject to ensure we are covered in similar properties. Make sure you inform your insurer in writing of the info required and you will be fine.

In Edmonton the main concerns are Safety/Fire Code and Building Code violations, and not Zoning regulations. If your suite is up to Code you should likely be OK, although you may have some legwork to do with the City. It may be worth a personal visit to deal with these issues. Be sure to document `the who and when and what` the people at City Hall tell you.

Hope that helps a bit,

 

[stepchuk]

Garth, Chris, and Rebecca,

Thank you for your input and feedback. Our insurer is most definetely aware of these secondary suites, and doesn`t appear to have any issue with them. As far as the property being up to code, we`ll know more specifics once the inspection is conducted early next week. I`m sure that we`ll be able to bring it up to code, but I have no doubt that the RF1 zoning thing is going to cause us some problems. Nevertheless, we`ll do our best to apply for rezoning or whatever we have to do to make it work! I`m sure that the experience we gain from this will be helpful to others out there as well. Thanks for the help, and if anyone else has been through this, please let me know.

 

[RedlineBrett]

QUOTE (GarthChapman @ Apr 19 2008, 10:57 AM) Hi Chris,

Regarding `Money`s` comments on your insurance coverage - as long as your insurer knows about the number of kitchens and residenses in the property, you are fully insured. I have done the necessary research into this subject to ensure we are covered in similar properties. Make sure you inform your insurer in writing of the info required and you will be fine.

Hope that helps a bit,

I can echo Garth`s comments here as we have had no problem getting our illegal suites ensured. We disclosed everything to our insurer and they were 100% fine with it.

This secondary suite issue is obviously a concern for many REIN members. I`d really like to know how people get tenants back into R1 zoned secondary`s after they`ve been `busted`.

Anyone had any success with this?

 

[charmer56]

QUOTE (MONEY @ Apr 19 2008, 03:26 AM) You should have done your due diligence first, and not count on the suite for income. There is a reason why areas are zoned `single residential`. You`re paying property taxes for `single family` use. The infastructure has been developed for such zoning, and you are clearly in violation of the law.Oh, and good luck with your insurance company should any fire happen. They will most likely deny your claim, because of the illegal use of the suite.

If your home is in an area of zoning changes, then, you `might` have a chance at having the zoning change.(That being that the Side Lot Line abuts a lot in an Industrial, Commercial, Row Housing, or Apartment Zone, )
But good luck with that, as it will cost you $, and you won`t be able to have tenants in that suite while you`re dealing with `city hall` on the issue. Plus you will have costs involved of bringing the suite up to code for allowing a suite, if such a zoning is provided.


Zoning is like a "community insuarance policy" to protect property from the intrusion of undesirable uses while promoting its best use consistent with private property rights and community concerns.

 

[MONEY]

QUOTE (RedlineBrett @ Apr 19 2008, 01:03 PM) I can echo Garth`s comments here as we have had no problem getting our illegal suites ensured. We disclosed everything to our insurer and they were 100% fine with it.

This secondary suite issue is obviously a concern for many REIN members. I`d really like to know how people get tenants back into R1 zoned secondary`s after they`ve been `busted`.

Anyone had any success with this?

Yes, the insurance issue, as with anything you inusre, is to be upfront with your insurer letting them know everything about the property being insured. That was a number 1 rule I learned back in the 70`s.

I`ve known some people who have been busted on the zoning issue, put the kitchen back together and keep the tenants, hoping that they wouldn`t be reported again. I wouldn`t suggest doing this, as it really does create a lot more potential legal problems in the future.

 

[MONEY]

QUOTE (GarthChapman @ Apr 19 2008, 11:57 AM) In Edmonton the main concerns are Safety/Fire Code and Building Code violations, and not Zoning regulations. If your suite is up to Code you should likely be OK, although you may have some legwork to do with the City. It may be worth a personal visit to deal with these issues. Be sure to document `the who and when and what` the people at City Hall tell you.Hope that helps a bit,The issue is with BOTH the Safety/Fire/Building Code AND Zoning Regulations.
You have to meet BOTH to have a secondary suite.

In the RF1, RF2 and RF3 zones, Secondary Suites are a Permitted Use only in the following locations:
• on corner lots; or
• lots fronting onto a service road; or
• where a side or rear lot line abuts a site in an Industrial, Commercial, Row Housing or Apartment Zone or is not separated from these sites by a public roadway more than 10.0 m wide

The majority of existing Secondary Suites are illegal for one or more of the following reasons:
1) The Zone within which the secondary suite is located does not allow Secondary Suites, or does not allow a secondary suite in the particular location.
2) The suite does not meet the requirements of the Alberta Building Code or Fire Code
3) The secondary suite does not have a valid development permit and/or building permit.