I`ve got some cash ready to buy real estate, however I`m too nervous after I had a horrible 2007/08 and would like to grow this money by investing in stocks etc. I know I may lose out on the really good deals, but until people slow down with the negativity I`m paranoid these people will drive real estate down further... and have decided to wait a bit. Until I decide to act on real estate again, any tips to growing this nest egg so I have easy liquidity and can grow my down payment? Invest in Oil? Potash? Suncor stock? what?
Any stock tips out there?
- Thread starter joe123
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Joe have you calculated how much you will lose if the stock goes down by 10% and vise versa if you RE purchase goes down by 10%. How likely is that the RE will rebound after a reasonable amount of time vs. the stock being delisted or significantly loosing value.
I believe that people will make fortunes in the stock market. Do YOU know what you are getting into?
Best of luck.
I believe that people will make fortunes in the stock market. Do YOU know what you are getting into?
Best of luck.
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If your going to trade short term on the stock market I would suggest you learn about the market and how to control your risk. The uptrend that may come in 2009 could be short lived. Your need to have a trading plan in place to trade short term. Learn before you jump in. Find out what type of trader you are and the risk you are willing to take. Most people lose more trades then they win so you need a risk / reward strategy of at least 2:1 ratio on any stock you buy. A trader without a plan will lose.
Good Luck
Good Luck
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QUOTE Until I decide to act on real estate again, any tips to growing this nest egg so I have easy liquidity and can grow my down payment? Invest in Oil? Potash? Suncor stock? what?
I think what you`re doing is smart. There`s much more liquidity in stocks than in real estate. Nothing wrong with investing in a short-term play that has a big potential benefit attached to it.
Think of the times that we`re in. People are very cash-conscious, and confidence is at depression-esque lows. What companies can benefit from these realities? I`d suggest that probably Wal-Mart can, probably Costco. Anything that takes less cash out of the consumers` pocket for everyday purchases should be more than able to weather the storms of today.
In contrast, I`d stay away from the consumer discretionary`s. Starbucks, Holt Renfrew, the types of places where you`re paying a premium for an otherwise comparable product that can be bought elsewhere for a lot less money. Starbucks already is in the process of shutting down 800 of its stores across North America, something that (I believe) already started last year, which is smart; but, they`re still likely going to be hurt quite bad, as people start to question why they`re paying $5.00 for a cup of coffee.
I think what you`re doing is smart. There`s much more liquidity in stocks than in real estate. Nothing wrong with investing in a short-term play that has a big potential benefit attached to it.
Think of the times that we`re in. People are very cash-conscious, and confidence is at depression-esque lows. What companies can benefit from these realities? I`d suggest that probably Wal-Mart can, probably Costco. Anything that takes less cash out of the consumers` pocket for everyday purchases should be more than able to weather the storms of today.
In contrast, I`d stay away from the consumer discretionary`s. Starbucks, Holt Renfrew, the types of places where you`re paying a premium for an otherwise comparable product that can be bought elsewhere for a lot less money. Starbucks already is in the process of shutting down 800 of its stores across North America, something that (I believe) already started last year, which is smart; but, they`re still likely going to be hurt quite bad, as people start to question why they`re paying $5.00 for a cup of coffee.
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- 130
QUOTE (joe123 @ Dec 24 2008, 12:18 AM)
I've got some cash ready to buy real estate, however I'm too nervous after I had a horrible 2007/08 and would like to grow this money by investing in stocks etc. I know I may lose out on the really good deals, but until people slow down with the negativity I'm paranoid these people will drive real estate down further... and have decided to wait a bit. Until I decide to act on real estate again, any tips to growing this nest egg so I have easy liquidity and can grow my down payment? Invest in Oil? Potash? Suncor stock? what?
Hi Joe
I understand your concern for the best way to grow your nest egg. Just remember that, at the end of the day, it is green in your jeans that matters. The vehicle you use to make your money work is irrelevant AS LONG AS IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!!
To quote a wise, old sage from Saskatchewan "I got my a$$ handed to me on a platter" this year. But out of all my investments, the real estate did the best. Yes, values were down. But the rent is still relatively stable. We are marketing hard and keeping vacancies down. All the bills are getting paid and I have total control over what happens. The only thing I can say for my managed money is that my brokers are still getting paid.
I did a quick calculation a while back and found that the DJIA from inception until today only averaged approx 5% CA with no chance of leverage and always the worry of a Bernard Madoff hiding somewhere. Contrast that with RE where you still have a hard asset and the ability to leverage your investment. Liquidity can also be a double edged sword which allows emotion take over a market.
So take this for what it is worth. If you are asking for my opinion, I will say to invest in a positive cash flowing property in an area that meets the criteria based on the ACRE real estate investment system. This isn't a REIN plug but that really is a good system.
This is my advice to you. Being as how this is a free forum, it is worth what you paid. If I had followed my own advice last spring, I would be substantially wealthier than I am today. If I can be of any further assistance to you, please don't hesitate to drop me a PM. Take care and have a Merry Christmas.
Harry
I've got some cash ready to buy real estate, however I'm too nervous after I had a horrible 2007/08 and would like to grow this money by investing in stocks etc. I know I may lose out on the really good deals, but until people slow down with the negativity I'm paranoid these people will drive real estate down further... and have decided to wait a bit. Until I decide to act on real estate again, any tips to growing this nest egg so I have easy liquidity and can grow my down payment? Invest in Oil? Potash? Suncor stock? what?
Hi Joe
I understand your concern for the best way to grow your nest egg. Just remember that, at the end of the day, it is green in your jeans that matters. The vehicle you use to make your money work is irrelevant AS LONG AS IT ACTUALLY WORKS!!!
To quote a wise, old sage from Saskatchewan "I got my a$$ handed to me on a platter" this year. But out of all my investments, the real estate did the best. Yes, values were down. But the rent is still relatively stable. We are marketing hard and keeping vacancies down. All the bills are getting paid and I have total control over what happens. The only thing I can say for my managed money is that my brokers are still getting paid.
I did a quick calculation a while back and found that the DJIA from inception until today only averaged approx 5% CA with no chance of leverage and always the worry of a Bernard Madoff hiding somewhere. Contrast that with RE where you still have a hard asset and the ability to leverage your investment. Liquidity can also be a double edged sword which allows emotion take over a market.
So take this for what it is worth. If you are asking for my opinion, I will say to invest in a positive cash flowing property in an area that meets the criteria based on the ACRE real estate investment system. This isn't a REIN plug but that really is a good system.
This is my advice to you. Being as how this is a free forum, it is worth what you paid. If I had followed my own advice last spring, I would be substantially wealthier than I am today. If I can be of any further assistance to you, please don't hesitate to drop me a PM. Take care and have a Merry Christmas.
Harry
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2007
- Messages
- 489
Come on people... There is definatly money in stocks. But I ask you, who among us knows how to get it? The stock experts at the banks and every where have pulled their money out of the market because they don`t know what way things are going. They are highly trained very well experienced and they don`t know which way to turn. So does it make sense to take a course on the stock market and go at it? How do you possibly think that this will bring you welath? We can take a quick course and beat the experts? I read somewhere that a mutual fund manager that has a lifetime average investment record in the 11-12% range is considered to be an out standing success. (There is only 1 Warren Buffett 26%) So the pros only do 12% what will you as a rookie do?
Look at the long term picture and deal with what you can directly control. REAL ESTATE!!! Buy it right and it doesn`t matter if the price falls 10, or even 20%. In time it is likely to go up. Even if it doesn`t, worse case scenario is the tenant will pay for it completly. Take the risk out of investing buy safe stuff. REAL ESTATE. Is Alberta real estate at the bottom? I don`t know. Are interest rates at the bottom? I don`t know, but how much lower can they go? Can you buy a good property at todays prices and finance it at a cost that allows you to make money? If your answer is yes what are you waiting for?
Look at the long term picture and deal with what you can directly control. REAL ESTATE!!! Buy it right and it doesn`t matter if the price falls 10, or even 20%. In time it is likely to go up. Even if it doesn`t, worse case scenario is the tenant will pay for it completly. Take the risk out of investing buy safe stuff. REAL ESTATE. Is Alberta real estate at the bottom? I don`t know. Are interest rates at the bottom? I don`t know, but how much lower can they go? Can you buy a good property at todays prices and finance it at a cost that allows you to make money? If your answer is yes what are you waiting for?
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ETF portfolio is always the answer
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Joe123:
If you are going to invest in stocks, I highly highly recommend the Motley Fool. Great great articles.
One of the absolute best websites out there. And, if you are serious about investing in stock, I also recommend you investigate their newsletter subscriptions. Might as well get some real expert advice, and aside from the actual tips and recommendations on where to put your money, they are committed to education.
Myself, I play options, but I also paid quite a bit of money to play this game. But contrary to stereotypes and cliches, options are a great way to control your risk, but you really need to know what you are doing. Lots of traders out there - I am not talking about day-traders!! (Not every "trader" has a time frame of one day or less!
) - are making 3% - 15% a month (traders generally measure their ROI on a monthly basis, if they`re doing it for a living).
There is unquestionably some real bargains out there. Way too much uncertainty and fear means lots of good, solid companies are being dragged into the mud by this ugly market. Which means when confidence is restored - 12/24/36+(!) months from now, there will be double to triple digit returns out there.
And, there are many ways to do this, but I still like gold and silver.
Feel free to pm me if you like.
Have fun and please control your risk.
Mike `Smitty` Smith
P.S. As a JV partner in 17+ properties, let me also say that following the REIN system - especially right now with cash flow available - is also an excellent way to invest. Its just more long term and less liquid than the equity and derivative markets.
P.P.S. You could also look into IBD, William O`Neill`s books, and really, nothing - nothing! - beats Van K Tharps classic; "Trade your way to Financial Freedom". I may have strayed though Joe from your original query, as you were looking for stock tips. Sorry
If you are going to invest in stocks, I highly highly recommend the Motley Fool. Great great articles.
One of the absolute best websites out there. And, if you are serious about investing in stock, I also recommend you investigate their newsletter subscriptions. Might as well get some real expert advice, and aside from the actual tips and recommendations on where to put your money, they are committed to education.
Myself, I play options, but I also paid quite a bit of money to play this game. But contrary to stereotypes and cliches, options are a great way to control your risk, but you really need to know what you are doing. Lots of traders out there - I am not talking about day-traders!! (Not every "trader" has a time frame of one day or less!
There is unquestionably some real bargains out there. Way too much uncertainty and fear means lots of good, solid companies are being dragged into the mud by this ugly market. Which means when confidence is restored - 12/24/36+(!) months from now, there will be double to triple digit returns out there.
And, there are many ways to do this, but I still like gold and silver.
Feel free to pm me if you like.
Have fun and please control your risk.
Mike `Smitty` Smith
P.S. As a JV partner in 17+ properties, let me also say that following the REIN system - especially right now with cash flow available - is also an excellent way to invest. Its just more long term and less liquid than the equity and derivative markets.
P.P.S. You could also look into IBD, William O`Neill`s books, and really, nothing - nothing! - beats Van K Tharps classic; "Trade your way to Financial Freedom". I may have strayed though Joe from your original query, as you were looking for stock tips. Sorry
Thanks, everyone, I guess the basis of what I want to do is a short term growth of the money I have to grow down payment money, so who know maybe I could get 3 properties instead of 2, a year from now. It is my opinion that real estate is going to be flat, or go down a little, then only a slow progression up, until maybe 2011 or 12?. I plan to act on the slow progression up prior to consumer confidence getting back on the follow the herd wagon. I also believe commodities like Oil are trading at an artificial low. So I feel maybe taking advantage of this? Other stocks etc. must be doing the same? Since stocks swing faster than real estate, I thought I could take advantage and build the "nest egg" to invest long term in Real estate. I realize a real estate forum is no place for stock tips, but I was hoping there were a few people sharing my views and short term goal of building more down payment money by taking advantage of what is going on.
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2007
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- 109
QUOTE (joe123 @ Dec 26 2008, 01:24 AM)
Thanks, everyone, I guess the basis of what I want to do is a short term growth of the money I have to grow down payment money, so who know maybe I could get 3 properties instead of 2, a year from now. It is my opinion that real estate is going to be flat, or go down a little, then only a slow progression up, until maybe 2011 or 12?. I plan to act on the slow progression up prior to consumer confidence getting back on the follow the herd wagon. I also believe commodities like Oil are trading at an artificial low. So I feel maybe taking advantage of this? Other stocks etc. must be doing the same? Since stocks swing faster than real estate, I thought I could take advantage and build the "nest egg" to invest long term in Real estate. I realize a real estate forum is no place for stock tips, but I was hoping there were a few people sharing my views and short term goal of building more down payment money by taking advantage of what is going on.
I understand what you are saying. I also believe Oil is artificially low. Right now i bought 100 shares of HOU this is an ETF and is based on how crude is doing. It follows a 2-1 ratio so if crude goes down then this stock goes down twice as fast. same on the way up. Now this is just a small amount of cash but if it goes up to where it was trading this summer then you would be laughing. anyway I dont recommend people to copy this is just a hunch of mine and im only using a small amount of money.
Thanks, everyone, I guess the basis of what I want to do is a short term growth of the money I have to grow down payment money, so who know maybe I could get 3 properties instead of 2, a year from now. It is my opinion that real estate is going to be flat, or go down a little, then only a slow progression up, until maybe 2011 or 12?. I plan to act on the slow progression up prior to consumer confidence getting back on the follow the herd wagon. I also believe commodities like Oil are trading at an artificial low. So I feel maybe taking advantage of this? Other stocks etc. must be doing the same? Since stocks swing faster than real estate, I thought I could take advantage and build the "nest egg" to invest long term in Real estate. I realize a real estate forum is no place for stock tips, but I was hoping there were a few people sharing my views and short term goal of building more down payment money by taking advantage of what is going on.
I understand what you are saying. I also believe Oil is artificially low. Right now i bought 100 shares of HOU this is an ETF and is based on how crude is doing. It follows a 2-1 ratio so if crude goes down then this stock goes down twice as fast. same on the way up. Now this is just a small amount of cash but if it goes up to where it was trading this summer then you would be laughing. anyway I dont recommend people to copy this is just a hunch of mine and im only using a small amount of money.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2007
- Messages
- 130
All the pundits are suggesting that RE will be relatively flat for a while but nobody I know is saying exactly when there will be a turnaround. If they did, I would question their sanity/reasoning. That is why cash flow is so important.
Try this, Joe. Have your realtor look for properties in the area you want to invest in with assumable mortgages and low down payments. They are out there. You may be able to find your 3 houses for a similar amount of downpayment that you were thinking of throwing at the stock market.
Either that or go and find some JV partners and buy 10 houses.
Harry
Try this, Joe. Have your realtor look for properties in the area you want to invest in with assumable mortgages and low down payments. They are out there. You may be able to find your 3 houses for a similar amount of downpayment that you were thinking of throwing at the stock market.
Either that or go and find some JV partners and buy 10 houses.
Harry
Given all my investments, my real estate has made me the happiest. Personally because I find the cash flow business model simple and easy to grasp. Evaluating stocks is a different story. I haven`t found a good method of filtering the good from the bad but I paid for some hard knock lessons. Don`t buy a company that don`t have enough day to day income to survive or is in a start up phase. You`re buying a time bomb.
If you really want to pass some time, I would suggest doing some due diligence on the following companies: Teck, BMO, Scoitabank, Petrobank, Altagas Energy Trust, and Arise technology.
If you really want to pass some time, I would suggest doing some due diligence on the following companies: Teck, BMO, Scoitabank, Petrobank, Altagas Energy Trust, and Arise technology.
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- 13,881
QUOTE (joe123 @ Dec 26 2008, 12:24 AM)
Thanks, everyone, I guess the basis of what I want to do is a short term growth of the money I have to grow down payment money, so who know maybe I could get 3 properties instead of 2, a year from now. ...
Stocks are poor investment for short-term .. and some folks (like Warren Buffet) argue anything less than 5 years is short-term.
One strategy that works fairly well in flat, rising and even slightly declining stock markets, in short and medium term, is COVERED CALLS .. this way you make money selling "time".
Example: SUNCOR (SU) that trades around $22 right now .. way down from last year ..
more here:
http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-8913-What_else_do_you_buy__besides_Apartment_Buildings.html
Thanks, everyone, I guess the basis of what I want to do is a short term growth of the money I have to grow down payment money, so who know maybe I could get 3 properties instead of 2, a year from now. ...
Stocks are poor investment for short-term .. and some folks (like Warren Buffet) argue anything less than 5 years is short-term.
One strategy that works fairly well in flat, rising and even slightly declining stock markets, in short and medium term, is COVERED CALLS .. this way you make money selling "time".
Example: SUNCOR (SU) that trades around $22 right now .. way down from last year ..
more here:
http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-8913-What_else_do_you_buy__besides_Apartment_Buildings.html
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2007
- Messages
- 121
QUOTE (thomasbeyer2000 @ Dec 27 2008, 11:29 AM)
Stocks are poor investment for short-term .. and some folks (like Warren Buffet) argue anything less than 5 years is short-term.
One strategy that works fairly well in flat, rising and even slightly declining stock markets, in short and medium term, is COVERED CALLS .. this way you make money selling "time".
Example: SUNCOR (SU) that trades around $22 right now .. way down from last year ..
more here:
http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-8913-What_else_do_you_buy__besides_Apartment_Buildings.html
Thomas;
Have provided a response to you in that forum you've provided. Its good that you've acknowledged that covered calls are ok during specific types of markets.
However, I believe there are better ways. With a little more education and discipline, options can become more powerful than what most people would believe, besides the one strategy of covered call writing - which I personally don't use, since it caps your profit while keeping all your risk. 2008 was not the year to do covered calls!
DISCLAIMER:
Just a note for everyone, but especially Don, or Russell, or the REIN team in general, if they're reading this thread, or others similar in nature regarding the stock market. Let me just say that despite having some expertise in the derivatives area, let me re-iterate that I think most of the "average" Joe and Martha's would be better suited to sticking with real estate, especially the systems taught by REIN. I am not trying to promote "day-trader" or a "get-rich-quick" mentality, nor am I saying that people should try trading on their own. Trading and/or investing in the stock market and using leveraged instruments like options/futures is inherently risky because of the education, patience, and most of all emotional control required. Trading and investing is often counter-intuitive to human nature. Most people can't stomach the volatility or losses that come (some stinking rich option traders have only "win" 40% of their trades - or less).
People have much better chance at success at becoming real "experts" in real estate, because its tangible, real, and fairly straightforward and uncomplicated. Really, its hard to go wrong when you follow a system, do the due diligence, get some cash flow, and lose the "flipping" mentality.
And isn't that true of everything: what I have found in business, investing in the market, life, real estate, - EVERYTHING! - is that success is usually brought about by following a system and having a sound game plan, and sticking to it. It just so happens that real estate systems are easier to master. Shorter time frames always introduce more risk, and lastly, have the slef courage to call a spade a spade; meaning if you're putting money down on something speculative, call it speculative and control your risk accordingly. Nothing wrong with speculation, as long as its your "casino" or "latte-a-day" money. Treat it accordingly.
Sound investing for everyone,
Smitty
P.S. I said all of the disclaimer because I can only imagine Don on stage at the next REIN meetings saying something like: "some wingnut on the REIN forums is advocating trading in the stock market and thinks real estate is broken!"
haha. I do not think real estate is broken, I just happen to be a "multiple streams of income" kinda guy. Focus, master one, stream focus, develop another stream, focus, move on. My personal Belize has at least 4 strong streams of income every month. A lot of people will do just fine with one from real estate.
Stocks are poor investment for short-term .. and some folks (like Warren Buffet) argue anything less than 5 years is short-term.
One strategy that works fairly well in flat, rising and even slightly declining stock markets, in short and medium term, is COVERED CALLS .. this way you make money selling "time".
Example: SUNCOR (SU) that trades around $22 right now .. way down from last year ..
more here:
http://myreinspace.com/public_forums/General_Discussion/61-8913-What_else_do_you_buy__besides_Apartment_Buildings.html
Thomas;
Have provided a response to you in that forum you've provided. Its good that you've acknowledged that covered calls are ok during specific types of markets.
However, I believe there are better ways. With a little more education and discipline, options can become more powerful than what most people would believe, besides the one strategy of covered call writing - which I personally don't use, since it caps your profit while keeping all your risk. 2008 was not the year to do covered calls!
DISCLAIMER:
Just a note for everyone, but especially Don, or Russell, or the REIN team in general, if they're reading this thread, or others similar in nature regarding the stock market. Let me just say that despite having some expertise in the derivatives area, let me re-iterate that I think most of the "average" Joe and Martha's would be better suited to sticking with real estate, especially the systems taught by REIN. I am not trying to promote "day-trader" or a "get-rich-quick" mentality, nor am I saying that people should try trading on their own. Trading and/or investing in the stock market and using leveraged instruments like options/futures is inherently risky because of the education, patience, and most of all emotional control required. Trading and investing is often counter-intuitive to human nature. Most people can't stomach the volatility or losses that come (some stinking rich option traders have only "win" 40% of their trades - or less).
People have much better chance at success at becoming real "experts" in real estate, because its tangible, real, and fairly straightforward and uncomplicated. Really, its hard to go wrong when you follow a system, do the due diligence, get some cash flow, and lose the "flipping" mentality.
And isn't that true of everything: what I have found in business, investing in the market, life, real estate, - EVERYTHING! - is that success is usually brought about by following a system and having a sound game plan, and sticking to it. It just so happens that real estate systems are easier to master. Shorter time frames always introduce more risk, and lastly, have the slef courage to call a spade a spade; meaning if you're putting money down on something speculative, call it speculative and control your risk accordingly. Nothing wrong with speculation, as long as its your "casino" or "latte-a-day" money. Treat it accordingly.
Sound investing for everyone,
Smitty
P.S. I said all of the disclaimer because I can only imagine Don on stage at the next REIN meetings saying something like: "some wingnut on the REIN forums is advocating trading in the stock market and thinks real estate is broken!"
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2007
- Messages
- 13,881
QUOTE (Smitty @ Dec 27 2008, 03:23 PM) ...
However, I believe there are better ways. With a little more education and discipline, options can become more powerful than what most people would believe, besides the one strategy of covered call writing - which I personally don`t use, since it caps your profit while keeping all your risk. 2008 was not the year to do covered calls!...
If you had written covered calls at the top of the market in summer 2008, yes, you would have lost money with covered calls .. but not as much as "naked stocks" only .. especially if they had been deep in the money which is what I recommend to be more conservative !
QUOTE (Smitty @ Dec 27 2008, 03:23 PM) My personal Belize has at least 4 strong streams of income every month. A lot of people will do just fine with one from real estate.
Question: what are those other 3 sources on income ?
However, I believe there are better ways. With a little more education and discipline, options can become more powerful than what most people would believe, besides the one strategy of covered call writing - which I personally don`t use, since it caps your profit while keeping all your risk. 2008 was not the year to do covered calls!...
If you had written covered calls at the top of the market in summer 2008, yes, you would have lost money with covered calls .. but not as much as "naked stocks" only .. especially if they had been deep in the money which is what I recommend to be more conservative !
QUOTE (Smitty @ Dec 27 2008, 03:23 PM) My personal Belize has at least 4 strong streams of income every month. A lot of people will do just fine with one from real estate.
Question: what are those other 3 sources on income ?
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2007
- Messages
- 121
Thomas:
I totally agree. Rare is the day when I just play naked stocks. However, having protective puts plus the sold calls (the collar) would have been far better, and is generally far better in most markets. Protective put strategies are the least utilized yet are very effective, and far more suitable for conservative investors.
I stand by the belief (many traders would call it a fact) that covered call writing is not a conservative strategy, that`s a huge misconception. I know smarter guys than me would be more lucid than I in convincing you of this. Plus, what if you had done covered calls during 2006 and 2007? Lots of profit given up due to call exercise. Many cases its simply not worth the income to sell the calls, unless you`re buying insurance.
I may have incorrectly implied that all my revenue streams are "online" right this moment. My bad. But in 5 years, here are the multiple streams of income I will have:
1) Positive cash flowing real estate
2) Long term investment income ala dividends, perhaps through TFSA. (See Derek Fosters books-but there are less risky ways than doing naked puts I digress.)
3) Short term trading - positions with less than 90 days in them. NO day trading! (I want to enjoy my life)
4) Solid, permanent, passive residual income from a business that I am building in 2009. Unbelievable opportunity.
5) Will explore revenue from web-sites - not counting on this one.
I count #2 and #3 as relatively the same. Basically, #4 should yield enough monthly cash flow to allow me to be the "money partner
in many real estate deals (let someone else do the work). In fact, I was considering an up and comer company called Prestigious Properties.
#5 I`m not counting on unless I find an expert who can do all the work.
Talk to ya,
Smitty
I totally agree. Rare is the day when I just play naked stocks. However, having protective puts plus the sold calls (the collar) would have been far better, and is generally far better in most markets. Protective put strategies are the least utilized yet are very effective, and far more suitable for conservative investors.
I stand by the belief (many traders would call it a fact) that covered call writing is not a conservative strategy, that`s a huge misconception. I know smarter guys than me would be more lucid than I in convincing you of this. Plus, what if you had done covered calls during 2006 and 2007? Lots of profit given up due to call exercise. Many cases its simply not worth the income to sell the calls, unless you`re buying insurance.
I may have incorrectly implied that all my revenue streams are "online" right this moment. My bad. But in 5 years, here are the multiple streams of income I will have:
1) Positive cash flowing real estate
2) Long term investment income ala dividends, perhaps through TFSA. (See Derek Fosters books-but there are less risky ways than doing naked puts I digress.)
3) Short term trading - positions with less than 90 days in them. NO day trading! (I want to enjoy my life)
4) Solid, permanent, passive residual income from a business that I am building in 2009. Unbelievable opportunity.
5) Will explore revenue from web-sites - not counting on this one.
I count #2 and #3 as relatively the same. Basically, #4 should yield enough monthly cash flow to allow me to be the "money partner
in many real estate deals (let someone else do the work). In fact, I was considering an up and comer company called Prestigious Properties.
Talk to ya,
Smitty
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2008
- Messages
- 91
the golden rule of investing....buy low sell high.
Most ppl do the opposite. If you look at the situation in the markets now. This is the only time that I would consider buying stocks due to the large discounts available.
I would buy now and sell in the next bull market. Then use that money in real estate for a more sustainable long term investing approach.
Some easy pics right now are Oil, i think anyone can agree that it is not going to stay at the levels now for some years.
Others selections require more research.
Like real estate always complete due dilligence, and dont listen to the media hype.
Most ppl do the opposite. If you look at the situation in the markets now. This is the only time that I would consider buying stocks due to the large discounts available.
I would buy now and sell in the next bull market. Then use that money in real estate for a more sustainable long term investing approach.
Some easy pics right now are Oil, i think anyone can agree that it is not going to stay at the levels now for some years.
Others selections require more research.
Like real estate always complete due dilligence, and dont listen to the media hype.
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- Aug 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,821
A comment - it seems to me that nearly none of these complex and effective investing strategies actually creates any wealth for our economy. They all seem to be zero-sum games, meaning what one party makes as gains must come from another party as losses. Most are about betting on the success or failure of some company or sector over a relatively short time frame.
I believe this is in part why our economies are in such trouble now. We are too focussed on making money in zero sum games than on creating actual value - goods, services, information. Economies are sustainably driven by goods, services and information. I am distinguishing here between short-term trading from long term value investing - ala Warren Buffet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett
A small example- Our last investment in stocks was in a private start-up Oil & Gas producer about 3 years ago. They were a start-up active in exploring for and producing O & G. They created value, and needed investment capital to do it. When they were finished their `run` they sold to a larger O & G firm on a stock swap. So now we own shares in that larger company which creates the same value. The stock swap did not produce the anticipated gain, but the buyer is a solid company, so this remains a long term play on a good company in a good area in an indispensible industry.
I believe this is in part why our economies are in such trouble now. We are too focussed on making money in zero sum games than on creating actual value - goods, services, information. Economies are sustainably driven by goods, services and information. I am distinguishing here between short-term trading from long term value investing - ala Warren Buffet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett
A small example- Our last investment in stocks was in a private start-up Oil & Gas producer about 3 years ago. They were a start-up active in exploring for and producing O & G. They created value, and needed investment capital to do it. When they were finished their `run` they sold to a larger O & G firm on a stock swap. So now we own shares in that larger company which creates the same value. The stock swap did not produce the anticipated gain, but the buyer is a solid company, so this remains a long term play on a good company in a good area in an indispensible industry.
- Joined
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- 13,881
QUOTE (GarthChapman @ Jan 1 2009, 10:52 AM) I believe this is in part why our economies are in such trouble now. We are too focussed on making money in zero sum games than on creating actual value - goods, services, information.
this is brilliant insight .. much , likely way too much, money is tied up in mutual funds and stocks where you buy stocks from someone else .. not creating any new value really !
Perhaps if taxes were as follows it would eliminate that:
invess for a day or less: tax is 100% of gain
invest for a week or less: tax is 75% of gain
invest for a month or less: tax is 50% of gain
invest for a year or less: tax is 25% of gain
any gain over a year: tax free
this is brilliant insight .. much , likely way too much, money is tied up in mutual funds and stocks where you buy stocks from someone else .. not creating any new value really !
Perhaps if taxes were as follows it would eliminate that:
invess for a day or less: tax is 100% of gain
invest for a week or less: tax is 75% of gain
invest for a month or less: tax is 50% of gain
invest for a year or less: tax is 25% of gain
any gain over a year: tax free