putting in a bigger basement window (egress)

[Nicola]

Hi,

We are thinking of putting in an offer on a house with a basement bedroom. It has a window, but I don`t think it is big enough to satisfy Capital Health`s requirements for means of egress (547 sq inches). To put in a bigger window would likely require removing part of the exterior wall. Any idea what this might cost? Would a general handyman be able to do this, or do you need a window specialist? (And would someone even be willing to do this small job?)

Thanks,
Nicola

 

[BrianMcGuckian]

QUOTE (Nicola @ May 1 2008, 01:34 AM)
Hi,



We are thinking of putting in an offer on a house with a basement bedroom. It has a window, but I don't think it is big enough to satisfy Capital Health's requirements for means of egress (547 sq inches). To put in a bigger window would likely require removing part of the exterior wall. Any idea what this might cost? Would a general handyman be able to do this, or do you need a window specialist? (And would someone even be willing to do this small job?)



Thanks,

Nicola


Hey Nicola,

Make sure you only need to make the window larger to appease everyone legaly...are you in Korea? I bought a place and not to long after got a call from the town stating that they got a call from someone and they thought I had an illegal basemant appt. I was told that if I could not produce a Statutory Declaration from a lawyer stating the house was used as a legal 2 unit dewlling in the past I would have to evict the basement tenants or face $25000 fine. Trouble is the LTA in Toronto will not allow eviction of tenants who are paying the rent!!??!! Confusing eh! This will bring on grey hairs faster than you can colour them!!

Hope this helps.

Brian

 

[Nicola]

QUOTE (BrianMcGuckian @ May 1 2008, 11:00 AM)
Hey Nicola,

Make sure you only need to make the window larger to appease everyone legaly...are you in Korea? I bought a place and not to long after got a call from the town stating that they got a call from someone and they thought I had an illegal basemant appt. I was told that if I could not produce a Statutory Declaration from a lawyer stating the house was used as a legal 2 unit dewlling in the past I would have to evict the basement tenants or face $25000 fine. Trouble is the LTA in Toronto will not allow eviction of tenants who are paying the rent!!??!! Confusing eh! This will bring on grey hairs faster than you can colour them!!

Hope this helps.

Brian




Hi Brian,

Wow, that is confusing! What are you going to do? (Yes, I am in Korea

) This is a single family home in Edmonton, but I want to make sure we can use the basement bedroom as well. Capital Health in Edmonton's regulations say it has to be 547 sq inches. Anyway, I do want to make sure someone can get out in case of fire, so if we have to make it bigger, it might as well be the right size. Just not sure how much work/effort/money this is!

Nicola

 

[HeatherBrandt]

QUOTE (Nicola @ Apr 30 2008, 06:34 PM) Hi,

We are thinking of putting in an offer on a house with a basement bedroom. It has a window, but I don`t think it is big enough to satisfy Capital Health`s requirements for means of egress (547 sq inches). To put in a bigger window would likely require removing part of the exterior wall. Any idea what this might cost? Would a general handyman be able to do this, or do you need a window specialist? (And would someone even be willing to do this small job?)

Thanks,
Nicola


Hi Nicola,

We enlarged 2 basement windows for a basement suite last year in Red Deer. I believe it was around $3000.

It`s fairly involved as a concrete cutter enlarges the opening for the window (a window company usually sets up the contractor in tandem with the window replacement so it all gets done the same day). You are responsible for digging away the dirt on the outside of the window (approx 1 foot on each side of the window, 2 feet out from the window, and about 3 feet deep. The concrete saw is fairly large but they have a smaller size if there is an obstruction (ie sidewalk). Also, the saw is water cooled so you have to roll up or protect the carpet, remove the drywall and insulation around the window, and put plastic everywhere to protect the room from water/mud/moisture. Then the window frame needs to be rebuilt and the room put back together (you can negotiate with the window company how much of this/if any you want to take on). We dug the holes, removed the carpet, removed the drywall/insulation. They built the window frame and insulated and put plastic over it, we replaced the drywall.

We also had to wait in line for about 2 months (of course in the dead of winter). Unfortunately the concrete cutter managed to spray water all over the neighbour`s sidewalk, so out property manager was blasted about the ice rink on their sidewalk. I went over and chipped the ice away/spread de-icer/smoothed things over with a neighbour who was not thrilled that the property was becoming a rental.

So, a bit involved. But we knew there was no way we could buy it/rent the place without doing the work. I would have had great difficulty get out of the former windows (even with the motivation of a fire!) and there is no way my husband could do it. It was great property otherwise, and this was the only major expense.

If you get if done, make sure you choose a window that you pull inwards, rather than a slider. This gives the tenant the maximum opening area to get out.

Hope this helps,

Heather Brandt

 

[Nicola]

QUOTE (HeatherBrandt @ May 1 2008, 11:59 AM)
Hi Nicola,



We enlarged 2 basement windows for a basement suite last year in Red Deer. I believe it was around $3000.



It's fairly involved as a concrete cutter enlarges the opening for the window (a window company usually sets up the contractor in tandem with the window replacement so it all gets done the same day). You are responsible for digging away the dirt on the outside of the window (approx 1 foot on each side of the window, 2 feet out from the window, and about 3 feet deep. The concrete saw is fairly large but they have a smaller size if there is an obstruction (ie sidewalk). Also, the saw is water cooled so you have to roll up or protect the carpet, remove the drywall and insulation around the window, and put plastic everywhere to protect the room from water/mud/moisture. Then the window frame needs to be rebuilt and the room put back together (you can negotiate with the window company how much of this/if any you want to take on). We dug the holes, removed the carpet, removed the drywall/insulation. They built the window frame and insulated and put plastic over it, we replaced the drywall.



We also had to wait in line for about 2 months (of course in the dead of winter). Unfortunately the concrete cutter managed to spray water all over the neighbour's sidewalk, so out property manager was blasted about the ice rink on their sidewalk. I went over and chipped the ice away/spread de-icer/smoothed things over with a neighbour who was not thrilled that the property was becoming a rental.



So, a bit involved. But we knew there was no way we could buy it/rent the place without doing the work. I would have had great difficulty get out of the former windows (even with the motivation of a fire!) and there is no way my husband could do it. It was great property otherwise, and this was the only major expense.



If you get if done, make sure you choose a window that you pull inwards, rather than a slider. This gives the tenant the maximum opening area to get out.



Hope this helps,



Heather Brandt






Hi Heather,

That's really helpful - thanks! Good suggestion, too, about getting one that pulls inwards.

I guess it would cost more if we didn't do any of the work ourselves (like you did). Would the window company do all that (digging, removing drywall & insulation etc) if you paid them?

Thanks,

Nicola

 

[HeatherBrandt]

QUOTE (Nicola @ Apr 30 2008, 09:18 PM)
Hi Heather,

That's really helpful - thanks! Good suggestion, too, about getting one that pulls inwards.

I guess it would cost more if we didn't do any of the work ourselves (like you did). Would the window company do all that (digging, removing drywall & insulation etc) if you paid them?

Thanks,

Nicola






Nicola,



Our company offered to do the drywalling inside but it was our choice. If you can find a good handyman, I would hire him to dig the holes, prepare the room, fill the hole back in, put in gravel, install window well and perhaps haul excess dirt away. You have to ensure clear communication between the concrete cutter/window guys/handyman so the hole that is dug is big enough (or they might leave and go on to the next job). I don't think the window guys really want to dig the holes as it is time consuming and I'm sure you will pay a premium rate.



As you are not in the city, hopefully you can find a family member or friend who can coordinate this for you. There are chances for things not to go as planned and you can count on delays . We were unable to rent the place until it was done as 1) we didn't want tenants in a suite we felt to be lacking in safety and 2) we didn't want to move tenants in and then tell them we need to rip apart their bedrooms for a while. Estimate loss of rent into your calculations! You may have more leeway with renters in a single family home as maybe the bedroom could be vacant until the window is done.



You may have to shop around a bit, perhaps some of the window companies will take care of everything.



As an aside, this work is an improvement, so it is a capital expense rather than repair/maintenance. You won't be able to use it as an immediate expense against rental income on your taxes.



Hope this helps,



Heather Brandt

 

[Nicola]

QUOTE (HeatherBrandt @ May 2 2008, 03:43 AM) Nicola,

Our company offered to do the drywalling inside but it was our choice. If you can find a good handyman, I would hire him to dig the holes, prepare the room, fill the hole back in, put in gravel, install window well and perhaps haul excess dirt away. You have to ensure clear communication between the concrete cutter/window guys/handyman so the hole that is dug is big enough (or they might leave and go on to the next job). I don`t think the window guys really want to dig the holes as it is time consuming and I`m sure you will pay a premium rate.

As you are not in the city, hopefully you can find a family member or friend who can coordinate this for you. There are chances for things not to go as planned and you can count on delays . We were unable to rent the place until it was done as 1) we didn`t want tenants in a suite we felt to be lacking in safety and 2) we didn`t want to move tenants in and then tell them we need to rip apart their bedrooms for a while. Estimate loss of rent into your calculations! You may have more leeway with renters in a single family home as maybe the bedroom could be vacant until the window is done.

You may have to shop around a bit, perhaps some of the window companies will take care of everything.

As an aside, this work is an improvement, so it is a capital expense rather than repair/maintenance. You won`t be able to use it as an immediate expense against rental income on your taxes.

Hope this helps,

Heather Brandt

Thanks, Heather, great advice!
Nicola

 

[TomRebstock]

I installed 2 egress windows last year. I hired a contractor at $ 2,000 per window (including a window well). It was done start to finish in 2 days. No labour by me.

Here`s what to watch for:

Permits. Is there an inspection to pass? (there may not be, or maybe there is).
These window products could be stock items, but most likely they aren`t. Watch out for lead times.
Check with your City or Municipality, request a drawing if they have one. Diligence is required.
Is there a minimum sill height (likely around 44" or less) (so that a person can crawl out!)?
If there is, do you want a window taller than wide? Or is more wide than tall ok (less cost!).
You will need a window well. (plastic, wood, aluminum.
Stairs? required built-in?
Check your city to see what the distance between the wall and the window well needs to be(around 39" minimum).
PREVENT MOISTURE from spilling into your basement.
Snow and rain can cause issues. It snows in Edmonton right?
A lid or cover (that does not prevent egress).
Ideally the window well should be connected to the weeping tile (to remove moisture).
I did not tie mine to the weeping tile (mistake) and I had moisture problems in the spring.

I am buying egress windows next week. Here`s the best supplier I could find:
http://www.escapewindows.net/

log on to www.youtube.com search on Astro egress.

The first item is an "astro egress window demonstation" showing an actual installation! cool eh!

You could e-mail them for a quote on product: Jeff Spear [email protected] they are in the Detroit Michigan area.
surely there is a Western company doing soemthing similar.

Tom Rebstock

 

[ToddStokowski]

Great video and post.

If anyone finds a supplier and installer similar to Astro in Edmonton, please let everyone know.

Todd

 

[Nicola]

Thanks, Tom!

 

[Jeana]

QUOTE (HeatherBrandt @ Apr 30 2008, 08:59 PM)
Hi Nicola,



We enlarged 2 basement windows for a basement suite last year in Red Deer. I believe it was around $3000.



It's fairly involved as a concrete cutter enlarges the opening for the window (a window company usually sets up the contractor in tandem with the window replacement so it all gets done the same day). You are responsible for digging away the dirt on the outside of the window (approx 1 foot on each side of the window, 2 feet out from the window, and about 3 feet deep. The concrete saw is fairly large but they have a smaller size if there is an obstruction (ie sidewalk). Also, the saw is water cooled so you have to roll up or protect the carpet, remove the drywall and insulation around the window, and put plastic everywhere to protect the room from water/mud/moisture. Then the window frame needs to be rebuilt and the room put back together (you can negotiate with the window company how much of this/if any you want to take on). We dug the holes, removed the carpet, removed the drywall/insulation. They built the window frame and insulated and put plastic over it, we replaced the drywall.



We also had to wait in line for about 2 months (of course in the dead of winter). Unfortunately the concrete cutter managed to spray water all over the neighbour's sidewalk, so out property manager was blasted about the ice rink on their sidewalk. I went over and chipped the ice away/spread de-icer/smoothed things over with a neighbour who was not thrilled that the property was becoming a rental.



So, a bit involved. But we knew there was no way we could buy it/rent the place without doing the work. I would have had great difficulty get out of the former windows (even with the motivation of a fire!) and there is no way my husband could do it. It was great property otherwise, and this was the only major expense.



If you get if done, make sure you choose a window that you pull inwards, rather than a slider. This gives the tenant the maximum opening area to get out.



Hope this helps,



Heather Brandt

 

[Jeana]

QUOTE (HeatherBrandt @ Apr 30 2008, 08:59 PM)
Hi Nicola,



We enlarged 2 basement windows for a basement suite last year in Red Deer. I believe it was around $3000.



It's fairly involved as a concrete cutter enlarges the opening for the window (a window company usually sets up the contractor in tandem with the window replacement so it all gets done the same day). You are responsible for digging away the dirt on the outside of the window (approx 1 foot on each side of the window, 2 feet out from the window, and about 3 feet deep. The concrete saw is fairly large but they have a smaller size if there is an obstruction (ie sidewalk). Also, the saw is water cooled so you have to roll up or protect the carpet, remove the drywall and insulation around the window, and put plastic everywhere to protect the room from water/mud/moisture. Then the window frame needs to be rebuilt and the room put back together (you can negotiate with the window company how much of this/if any you want to take on). We dug the holes, removed the carpet, removed the drywall/insulation. They built the window frame and insulated and put plastic over it, we replaced the drywall.



We also had to wait in line for about 2 months (of course in the dead of winter). Unfortunately the concrete cutter managed to spray water all over the neighbour's sidewalk, so out property manager was blasted about the ice rink on their sidewalk. I went over and chipped the ice away/spread de-icer/smoothed things over with a neighbour who was not thrilled that the property was becoming a rental.



So, a bit involved. But we knew there was no way we could buy it/rent the place without doing the work. I would have had great difficulty get out of the former windows (even with the motivation of a fire!) and there is no way my husband could do it. It was great property otherwise, and this was the only major expense.



If you get if done, make sure you choose a window that you pull inwards, rather than a slider. This gives the tenant the maximum opening area to get out.



Hope this helps,



Heather Brandt

 

[terri]

hi Nicola,

I don`t know anything about the cost of installation in Red Deer, but one thing I do want to add is to make sure that both the window manufacture and installer know that it is meant to be a means of egress and that the interior opening dimensions must comply with the fire safety code in your area.

I recently replaced all the windows in a house and my window installer replace a basement window with a single slider instead of a double slider because he was trying to save me a few bucks, but it meant that one side of the glass was now permanently fixed and could not be removed. It no longer met fire safety code and we had to order another window.

Not too costly, but good lesson learned for future.

Terri

 

[RebeccaBryan]

I used Totem to order windows for egress and the program they have automatically tells you if the size of your current space will work for an egress window. The specialist that you order your window from should know what they are doing. I just ordered the egress window and put it in myself, which was very easy. I think you need to determine if the hole needs cut bigger, if it doesn`t then it shouldn`t be a very costly. I replaced two bedroom windows and the windows themselves were $350 each.

 

[behardner]

QUOTE (RebeccaBryan @ Oct 6 2010, 07:29 AM) I used Totem to order windows for egress and the program they have automatically tells you if the size of your current space will work for an egress window. The specialist that you order your window from should know what they are doing. I just ordered the egress window and put it in myself, which was very easy. I think you need to determine if the hole needs cut bigger, if it doesn`t then it shouldn`t be a very costly. I replaced two bedroom windows and the windows themselves were $350 each.


I just got two basement windows put in, it was $2500 to cut the concrete, and $150 for each window from durabuilt!

 

[Berubeland]

I just want to mention that one owner I worked with used to install sliding patio doors in his basement suites. His houses were all in very high demand areas and it made a huge difference in the amount of rent he would get as well as how long his tenants would stay. It also dealt with a common basement apartment problem of how to get furniture down the stairs.

The suite in my house for instance, you can`t get some couches or a queen sized boxspring down the stairs.

So for those of who who have basement suites this is a possible option and it really makes a huge difference to the space. If you`re planning to have a house for the next 25 years and rent it out this might be a good investment for you.

 

[bizaro86]

QUOTE (Berubeland @ Oct 7 2010, 06:50 AM)
I just want to mention that one owner I worked with used to install sliding patio doors in his basement suites. His houses were all in very high demand areas and it made a huge difference in the amount of rent he would get as well as how long his tenants would stay. It also dealt with a common basement apartment problem of how to get furniture down the stairs.




Are sliding patio doors as secure as a regular door? It seems like that would be a potential objection, as you can't really deadbolt them can you? Or was that never an issue?

 

[housingrental]

This is an issue - broken and cracked glass is also an issue
QUOTE (bizaro86 @ Oct 7 2010, 10:01 AM) Are sliding patio doors as secure as a regular door? It seems like that would be a potential objection, as you can`t really deadbolt them can you? Or was that never an issue?

 

[Berubeland]

Security is always a concern, most people just put a hockey stick on the bottom to reinforce the lock so the door can`t slide. As far as broken glass or someone breaking it is concerned I`m not sure it matters if it`s a smaller but still big enough to get out of window or a large sliding door.

I can say this... it makes a huge difference to the apartment. Around here they`re referred to as walkout basements.