new friend sleeping on the couch

[Nir]

Hi,

A case worker of my tenant (who is the only person on the lease) recently called to inform me that the tenant has a friend who lives there and is sleeping on the couch.

What would you do in this case? on one hand perhaps it is legal to bring a friend, on the other hand it does cost us landlords more.

THANKS.

ps. I think a similar discussion was initiated in the past.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (investmart @ May 12 2010, 07:19 AM) Hi,

A case worker of my tenant (who is the only person on the lease) recently called to inform me that the tenant has a friend who lives there and is sleeping on the couch.

What would you do in this case? on one hand perhaps it is legal to bring a friend, on the other hand it does cost us landlords more.

THANKS.

ps. I think a similar discussion was initiated in the past.
A lease usually states what is allowed .. say a few days .. have a chat with the tenant .. especially if it drags on for weeks and weeks or if there are noise issues or complaints .. and then either

a) ask for more rent, i.e. a lease amendment, or
b) consider evicting him

Your choice !

 

[Nir]

Thank you Thomas, Great advice! will do..

 

[rforgiel]

I have a similar issue and called the Ontario Landlord and Tenant Board helpline to see what forms to issue. They told me the tenant is allowed to rent out rooms. I told her only one name is on my lease and I have allowed only one person to inhabit my 1 bedroom apartment. She told me this is an illegal lease.

I wanted to start evicting people using the illegal subletting forms and procedures but was informed subletting only occurs if the original tenant moves out. If they are still living there it is not subletting and the forms do not apply.

If anyone has legally and successfully evicted under these circumstances please let us know.

 

[JimWhitelaw]

QUOTE (rforgiel @ May 13 2010, 05:17 AM) I have a similar issue and called the Ontario Landlord and Tenant Board helpline to see what forms to issue. They told me the tenant is allowed to rent out rooms. I told her only one name is on my lease and I have allowed only one person to inhabit my 1 bedroom apartment. She told me this is an illegal lease.
Wow, that ON tenant legislation is messed up. It seems like at every turn, the tenant is granted more rights with the property than the owner. Crazy.

 

[fumbrunner]

QUOTE (JimWhitelaw @ May 13 2010, 09:41 AM) Wow, that ON tenant legislation is messed up. It seems like at every turn, the tenant is granted more rights with the property than the owner. Crazy.

Even if given the opportunity, I would never own properties in Ontario. Some of the horror stories are awful. An RTB that acts more like a tenant advocate than a mediator breeds "professional" tenants. It sounds like a true mess out there. Things are a bit more balanced here on the prairies.

 

[PropertySolution]

QUOTE (investmart @ May 12 2010, 07:19 AM) on the other hand it does cost us landlords more.

As I am not familiar with the RTA in Ontario I will leave those suggestions to the experienced ones.

But IMHO, each and every person residing in/on your property costs you money. This person staying will add to the wear & tear, utility costs and traffic of the common areas... friends have friends and they have friends and they have.....well you get the point.

Also, complications and legal issues could arise should the Legal Tenant leave the unit permanently. You may find yourself in court trying to get this person out of your property. So now you have court costs, Sheriff/Bailiff services, very likely no rent from the squatter and this doesn`t even touch the stress and wear & tear it will cause you.

I would be moving on this swiftly and the most effect route.

Good Luck

 

[Berubeland]

Hah !!! I`ll tell you a story about how messed up it can be. i used to manage a 400 unit building here in Toronto at Weston & 401 which is an interesting part of town.

So resident is behind on his rent and comes down to get a rent receipt. I already evicted this guy three times and he paid up all the arrears actually he cons his rich aunt into send a check to cover his late rent but anyways... So the accountant tells him no he can`t have the rent receipt because of his arrears. So then the accountant a little while later goes out to the lobby to program the entry codes into the enterphone. So the tenant comes by him and starts hitting him. Thank god it`s all on video. So I file for Impaired Safety and win this one in the mediation room, he agrees to move out, he also has a whack more arrears piled up. He stays in the apartment until the day the Sheriff comes to kick him out. His place is piled with garbage and tons of signs of drug use including crack cans etc.

So we think it`s great we`re finally rid of him. No such luck he moves in with another guy four floors down. So when I found out I went to the apartment and knocked on the door and was told that He was a guest and I have no right to interfere. Then rent day comes and no rent. So then I evict that guy too.

Then I left that job... but I heard that he moved to yet another apartment before actually moving to another building.

 

[Nir]

QUOTE (Berubeland @ May 13 2010, 06:58 PM) Hah !!! I`ll tell you a story about how messed up it can be. i used to manage a 400 unit building here in Toronto at Weston & 401 which is an interesting part of town.

So resident is behind on his rent and comes down to get a rent receipt. I already evicted this guy three times and he paid up all the arrears actually he cons his rich aunt into send a check to cover his late rent but anyways... So the accountant tells him no he can`t have the rent receipt because of his arrears. So then the accountant a little while later goes out to the lobby to program the entry codes into the enterphone. So the tenant comes by him and starts hitting him. Thank god it`s all on video. So I file for Impaired Safety and win this one in the mediation room, he agrees to move out, he also has a whack more arrears piled up. He stays in the apartment until the day the Sheriff comes to kick him out. His place is piled with garbage and tons of signs of drug use including crack cans etc.

So we think it`s great we`re finally rid of him. No such luck he moves in with another guy four floors down. So when I found out I went to the apartment and knocked on the door and was told that He was a guest and I have no right to interfere. Then rent day comes and no rent. So then I evict that guy too.

Then I left that job... but I heard that he moved to yet another apartment before actually moving to another building.

OMG! what a story! Thank You Berubeland for sharing.
I keep reading how Ontario is much more difficult for landlords.
Can someone from another province please explain why/in what way the above story would be different had it happened in your province (assuming a similar building, same situation, same tenant etc.)? why would the same tenant/criminal NOT be able to do the same thing in your province? specifically, when in the process would he be stopped!?
Regards,
Neil

 

[PropertySolution]

I am in Alberta and been doing this since the early 80s. When the original Tenant has vacated, as soon as the squatter leaves the unit you can change the locks and take possession. But if you don`t do it that way its pretty much the same process as well... Evict, court order, Sheriff/Bailiff and than it would start all over again for the different suite. But Here it would be faster, I have been in front of a judge with-in 3 days for a chronic late Tenant. The Tenant didn`t show up for the hearing so I won by default and the Judge gave them 7 days before I could get a bailiff in.

But when you are in front of a judge everything is a "gray area" so the judge basically makes a decision on testimony and evidence not so much Law. For instance, if the Tenant has children it is almost certain the judge will allow 30 days to vacate. If it is a single person I have had judges give as little as 48 hours.

 

[margaretcowan]

I`d chat to the tenant and find out if the friend on the couch is a guest for a short time and if so, for how long. In my apartment complex, our rental agreement states guests can stay a max of two weeks and then must be approved by the property manager.

If the friend is staying indefinitely, the friend would fill out your regular tenant application form and be qualified as a second occupant/roommate on the rental agreement. Is the friend paying part of the rent?

If your rental agreement prohibits a second occupant, I`d get a 2nd opinion on your right to evict the tenant and then talk to the tenant about the friend on the couch.

Margaret
Hi,

A case worker of my tenant (who is the only person on the lease) recently called to inform me that the tenant has a friend who lives there and is sleeping on the couch.

What would you do in this case? on one hand perhaps it is legal to bring a friend, on the other hand it does cost us landlords more.

THANKS.

ps. I think a similar discussion was initiated in the past.