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Is there active REIN members in Quebec?

XavierCP

Inspired Forum Member
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May 8, 2019
Messages
51
Hi there,

I am new on this forum and was wondering if there's active REIN members in Quebec or I have to look towards Ontario?
I noticed the REIN events are located more on the west of Canada or in Ontario.

Is the French language a barrier?

Thank you
 

Tina Myrvang

Client Care Lead
Staff member
REIN Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2010
Messages
1,502
Hello Xavier,

Welcome to our forum. We have members across Canada. This is the best place to connect with them. We do not come to Quebec for Live meetings or events. All our content is offered online for our members.

Have a wonderful day.
 

XavierCP

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Messages
51
Hello Xavier,

Welcome to our forum. We have members across Canada. This is the best place to connect with them. We do not come to Quebec for Live meetings or events. All our content is offered online for our members.

Have a wonderful day.
Thank you Tina for taking the time to answer me, I truly appreciate.

With the discount code we can find on the video of https://info.reincanada.com/rein-all-access-membership the cheapest membership cost for REIN is C$2,000, am I correct?

Thank you
 

Alvaro Sanchez

Ottawa-Gatineau Investor
Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Messages
966
There is not much content on the Quebec side on the forum and there is only a handful of members who invest in Quebec.

Hi there,

I am new on this forum and was wondering if there's active REIN members in Quebec or I have to look towards Ontario?
I noticed the REIN events are located more on the west of Canada or in Ontario.

Is the French language a barrier?

Thank you
 

XavierCP

Inspired Forum Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
51
There is not much content on the Quebec side on the forum and there is only a handful of members who invest in Quebec.
Thank you Alvaro Sanchez,

I started to analyze the macro economic forces that drive market values (Increase in Average Incomes, Housing Affordability Index) and until know I didn't find Montreal to be more attractive to invest compared to other cities in Canada.

I just started my analysis though, I have to look for these other factors:
  • Increased In-Migration and Demand
  • The Ripple Effect
  • Local, Regional and Provincial Political Climate
  • Transportation Expansion
  • Areas in Transition
Until now, I think that Montreal remains a great area to invest for these reasons from RBC:

Montreal area – Decade-low affordability not an obstacle to buyers Montreal is the other major market in Canada that set an all-time sales record in 2018 (46,800 units). Supported by a vibrant economy and increasing international interest, demand has been solid across the board. So much so that sellers have gained the upper hand in all housing categories—even condos. Property values are going up but at a controlled pace (in the range of 5-6% year over year). This is gradually eroding housing affordability to levels that potentially could pinch buyers but, as in Ottawa, buyers weren’t bothered by it. RBC’s aggregate measure for Montreal was little changed at 44.5% in the fourth quarter, still near a decade high.
Source: http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/canadian-housing/house-mar2019.pdf
http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/canadian-housing/house-mar2019.pdf

What do you think?
 

Alvaro Sanchez

Ottawa-Gatineau Investor
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Jun 5, 2009
Messages
966
While the macro economics are important factors, you must not forget that true valuation of a property is done by a clear understanding of how to make a property increase valuation. I am targeting Ottawa-Gatineau and Montreal which is in my view are very stable market with lots of demand for housing, employment and new transportation projects.
 

Willyboy

Frequent Forum Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
115
Thank you Alvaro Sanchez,

I started to analyze the macro economic forces that drive market values (Increase in Average Incomes, Housing Affordability Index) and until know I didn't find Montreal to be more attractive to invest compared to other cities in Canada.

I just started my analysis though, I have to look for these other factors:
  • Increased In-Migration and Demand
  • The Ripple Effect
  • Local, Regional and Provincial Political Climate
  • Transportation Expansion
  • Areas in Transition
Until now, I think that Montreal remains a great area to invest for these reasons from RBC:


What do you think?

It also depends on where in the real estate cycle a city is. And it depends greatly on average rents. Generally speaking Montreal is a stable and less cyclical market which is very good. However the small and large multifamily sector has been in a bubble like the other major cities relative to average rents in the city which are lower than in other cities and that's why if you look at the cash flow numbers you find they are not good. They're as bad as the ones in Vancouver and Toronto. Hyper inflated prices relative to rents. Multifamily prices in Montreal are lower but because of rent control they seem high and the cash flow is not good but to tell you the truth people in Montreal are lucky due to rent control and most likely happier which is a good thing. Condos and single family houses are not as bad in terms of affordability compared to other cities but they're not as popular for investment as plexes or large apartment buildings. Condos in some areas like downtown and some others are good for investment but prices are up already so it's too late now.

Regardless if you invest for the long term and depending on your age you're fine never mind where you invest but keep in mind long term doesn't mean 5 or 10 years unless you're lucky and you're buying at the bottom but currently most major cities are at or near the peak so if you buy today you might have to wait at least 15-25 years in order to make some good return.
 

XavierCP

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May 8, 2019
Messages
51
While the macro economics are important factors, you must not forget that true valuation of a property is done by a clear understanding of how to make a property increase valuation. I am targeting Ottawa-Gatineau and Montreal which is in my view are very stable market with lots of demand for housing, employment and new transportation projects.
Thank you Alvaro for your answer! :)

This is what I am looking for, an area or neighbourhood with "stable market with lots of demand for housing, employment and new transportation projects". My objective is to invest in a rental property to have positive cash flow. Thank you for your opinion!

I am presently applying the ACRE system from the book Real Estate Investing in Canada: Creating Wealth with the ACRE System written by
Don R. Campbell (Senior Analyst with the Real Estate Investment Network). After the macro and micro economic factors to find a potential area, I will start analyzing properties.

It's a lot of work applying the ACRE (Authentic Canadian Real Estate system) but I like it. For the macro and micro economic analysis, I am struggling to find the numbers I am looking for though.
 

XavierCP

Inspired Forum Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
51
It also depends on where in the real estate cycle a city is. And it depends greatly on average rents. Generally speaking Montreal is a stable and less cyclical market which is very good. However the small and large multifamily sector has been in a bubble like the other major cities relative to average rents in the city which are lower than in other cities and that's why if you look at the cash flow numbers you find they are not good. They're as bad as the ones in Vancouver and Toronto. Hyper inflated prices relative to rents. Multifamily prices in Montreal are lower but because of rent control they seem high and the cash flow is not good but to tell you the truth people in Montreal are lucky due to rent control and most likely happier which is a good thing. Condos and single family houses are not as bad in terms of affordability compared to other cities but they're not as popular for investment as plexes or large apartment buildings. Condos in some areas like downtown and some others are good for investment but prices are up already so it's too late now.

Regardless if you invest for the long term and depending on your age you're fine never mind where you invest but keep in mind long term doesn't mean 5 or 10 years unless you're lucky and you're buying at the bottom but currently most major cities are at or near the peak so if you buy today you might have to wait at least 15-25 years in order to make some good return.

Thank you Willyboy for your answer!

When you write "...that's why if you look at the cash flow numbers you find they are not good.", may I ask you from which report you are referring to for the cash flow numbers?

I am looking to invest in a rental property to have positive cash flow every month, it's my priority before the potential value increase of the property.
 

Martin1968

Frequent Forum Member
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Jan 22, 2017
Messages
235
I don’t think anyone that knows real estate needs a report to figure out cash flow sucks in markets like Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary or as suggested Montreal. It’s a simple calculation based on what’s out on the market to purchase, at what price, and the rent projections.

Significant positive cashflow is virtually unattainable in those markets. On the other hand, when you say you want to invest in positive cashflow properties, how much monthly positive cashflow is enough for you.
$5.00 ? $50.00? $100.00? $250.00? $500.00?
All those numbers are positive but will make a world of difference in your investment-dollars making a splash.

My best advice to you, reading your posts, is to work hard to increase your monthly income, start with buying your primary residence, either rent out rooms or having the possibility to ‘suite’ it and grow from there.
 

Willyboy

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Aug 19, 2016
Messages
115
Thank you Willyboy for your answer!

When you write "...that's why if you look at the cash flow numbers you find they are not good.", may I ask you from which report you are referring to for the cash flow numbers?

I am looking to invest in a rental property to have positive cash flow every month, it's my priority before the potential value increase of the property.

Hi Xavier,

No worries. I didn't look at any report. All you need is some basic understanding of mathematics, common sense and some basic rental housing knowledge like property taxes, insurance, average rents (you can find them on CMHC website), maintenance costs, vacancy( CMHC website), property management, etc....

Your next best friend is a good online rental property analyzer to input the figures corresponding to those things above.

In Montreal and Quebec there's a very popular type of rental housing that doesn't exist in the other cities in Canada. It's called Plexes from 2 to 5 units. But because they have been very popular and in high demand for the last two decades they got highly inflated in prices and consequently the cash flow became negative if you use real expense numbers and not enhanced proformas. Typically in this type of housing a small investor buys say a duplex or 3 plex or 4 plex or even a 5 plex, lives in one unit and rents out the rest. And due to the fact that investors buy them to live in one of the units they pay sometimes a premium as they consider the whole structure as their own living place and the rest of units as a mortgage helper or a rental investment. Many of them also have a very beautiful curb appeal and in very good locations where they get snapped up quickly and hence the negative cash flow. Now if you manage them yourself and are a handy man as well the cash flow becomes a little positive but not everybody can do that. The potential for price appreciation is very good on the other hand as it has been before but you would have to wait until you resell say in at least 5-7 years so you can offset the negative cash flow if you're not self managing.

The other type of rental property like anywhere else in Canada is apartment buildings 6 units and up and they have better cash flow numbers due to the fact that they typically are used strictly as rentals and have more units. However because of rent control you won't see high positive cash flow.

REIN is a very good site for education. And I recommend you check out the Club d'investisseurs immobiliers du Quebec. They are very similar to REIN but in Quebec only. REIN is Canada wide so if you'd like to invest out of Quebec REIN is good for you.

Research property analyzers as well and try to meet with a investor focused realtor to show you how to use a cash flow analyzer. Be aware though that some realtors use the numbers to input there in such a way to make the cash flow seem like positive so you have to get education on the realistic numbers to use and you probably can get that education at REIN or other clubs if you are in Quebec.
 

Willyboy

Frequent Forum Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
115
I don’t think anyone that knows real estate needs a report to figure out cash flow sucks in markets like Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary or as suggested Montreal. It’s a simple calculation based on what’s out on the market to purchase, at what price, and the rent projections.

Significant positive cashflow is virtually unattainable in those markets. On the other hand, when you say you want to invest in positive cashflow properties, how much monthly positive cashflow is enough for you.
$5.00 ? $50.00? $100.00? $250.00? $500.00?
All those numbers are positive but will make a world of difference in your investment-dollars making a splash.

My best advice to you, reading your posts, is to work hard to increase your monthly income, start with buying your primary residence, either rent out rooms or having the possibility to ‘suite’ it and grow from there.

You're right Martin. I often see properties advertised as cash flow positive but the question is how much positive is considered worth the return on investment at the end of the day. Like you said $500 is positive and $5 is positive as well but what is an acceptable return? In my opinion the return without potential appreciation taken into account should be no less than 10% but what's on the market is in the range of 2-5% which is low. And this is evidence the prices are over inflated.
 

Thomas Beyer

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REIN Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2007
Messages
13,881
Reduce leverage to increase cash-flow.

Is this better though? Some thoughts on this topic here with a fictitious $1M.

Real estate is like a three course meal (TM). It has three profit centers: cash-flow (or the appetizer), mortgage paydown (the main course) and equity appreciation through asset improvements and inflationary rental upside (the dessert).

What is better: Cash-Flow or Maximum ROI ? http://myreinspace.com/threads/what-is-better-cash-flow-or-higher-roi.26596/

Cash-flow does NOT make you rich, but it allows a sustained ownership. Appreciation and mortgage paydown (by others) is where you get wealthy.
 

XavierCP

Inspired Forum Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
51
Hi Xavier,

No worries. I didn't look at any report. All you need is some basic understanding of mathematics, common sense and some basic rental housing knowledge like property taxes, insurance, average rents (you can find them on CMHC website), maintenance costs, vacancy( CMHC website), property management, etc....

Your next best friend is a good online rental property analyzer to input the figures corresponding to those things above.

In Montreal and Quebec there's a very popular type of rental housing that doesn't exist in the other cities in Canada. It's called Plexes from 2 to 5 units. But because they have been very popular and in high demand for the last two decades they got highly inflated in prices and consequently the cash flow became negative if you use real expense numbers and not enhanced proformas. Typically in this type of housing a small investor buys say a duplex or 3 plex or 4 plex or even a 5 plex, lives in one unit and rents out the rest. And due to the fact that investors buy them to live in one of the units they pay sometimes a premium as they consider the whole structure as their own living place and the rest of units as a mortgage helper or a rental investment. Many of them also have a very beautiful curb appeal and in very good locations where they get snapped up quickly and hence the negative cash flow. Now if you manage them yourself and are a handy man as well the cash flow becomes a little positive but not everybody can do that. The potential for price appreciation is very good on the other hand as it has been before but you would have to wait until you resell say in at least 5-7 years so you can offset the negative cash flow if you're not self managing.

The other type of rental property like anywhere else in Canada is apartment buildings 6 units and up and they have better cash flow numbers due to the fact that they typically are used strictly as rentals and have more units. However because of rent control you won't see high positive cash flow.

REIN is a very good site for education. And I recommend you check out the Club d'investisseurs immobiliers du Quebec. They are very similar to REIN but in Quebec only. REIN is Canada wide so if you'd like to invest out of Quebec REIN is good for you.

Research property analyzers as well and try to meet with a investor focused realtor to show you how to use a cash flow analyzer. Be aware though that some realtors use the numbers to input there in such a way to make the cash flow seem like positive so you have to get education on the realistic numbers to use and you probably can get that education at REIN or other clubs if you are in Quebec.

Hi Willyboy, this is an amazing answer, thank you so much!

I am a rookie in real estate investment but I would agree mostly with all you wrote.

I started to study Real Estate Investment few weeks ago and my guide is the book Real Estate Investing in Canada: Creating Wealth with the ACRE System written by Don R. Campbell.

In the book, Don gives his property analyzer method and technique to include all expenses to consider in the calculation of the monthly cash flow. I know I have a lot of work to do to calculate all the costs once I will find a potential rental property to buy. I read the book once and now I re-read it actively (applying all his systems).

Thank you for the reference to the Club d'investisseurs immobiliers du Quebec, I will definitely have a look to see what resources I can gain from them to achieve my real estate investment goal.
 

XavierCP

Inspired Forum Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
51
Real estate is like a three course meal (TM). It has three profit centers: cash-flow (or the appetizer), mortgage paydown (the main course) and equity appreciation through asset improvements and inflationary rental upside (the dessert).
Well said!
 

XavierCP

Inspired Forum Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
51
Cash-flow does NOT make you rich, but it allows a sustained ownership. Appreciation and mortgage paydown (by others) is where you get wealthy.

Do the two (Cash-flow and mortgage paydown) move in tandem? I mean if I buy an apartment which provide positive cash-flow every month, not only I pay the mortgage every month but I can also receive cash every month?
 

XavierCP

Inspired Forum Member
Registered
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
51
I don’t think anyone that knows real estate needs a report to figure out cash flow sucks in markets like Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary or as suggested Montreal. It’s a simple calculation based on what’s out on the market to purchase, at what price, and the rent projections.

Significant positive cashflow is virtually unattainable in those markets. On the other hand, when you say you want to invest in positive cashflow properties, how much monthly positive cashflow is enough for you.
$5.00 ? $50.00? $100.00? $250.00? $500.00?
All those numbers are positive but will make a world of difference in your investment-dollars making a splash.

My best advice to you, reading your posts, is to work hard to increase your monthly income, start with buying your primary residence, either rent out rooms or having the possibility to ‘suite’ it and grow from there.

Thank you Martin1968,

Are you certain that cash flow sucks in Montreal?

I would be happy with a monthly positive cash flow of C$100.00 for my first mortgage property, like an apartment.

From the book I am reading (Real Estate Investing in Canada: Creating Wealth with the ACRE System written by Don R. Campbell)
there's so many strategies to find good rental properties (Creating Highest and Best Use, Quality Marketing, Areas in Transition, Transportation Expansion, In-Migration and Demand, The Ripple Effect, Local, Regional and Provincial Political Climate etc). I don't think it's easy to find a positive cash flow property because it requires a lot of research but I do believe there is opportunities in Greater Montreal area.

Your advice:

My best advice to you, reading your posts, is to work hard to increase your monthly income, start with buying your primary residence, either rent out rooms or having the possibility to ‘suite’ it and grow from there.

is awesome :) it's a good example of "Creating Highest and Best Use".
 
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