Ethics of Evicting Old Tenants

[joannemuriel]

Hi there!

I am completely new here, but really need help with this problem. I took over a house a month ago, that took over nearly 2.5 months to close due to so many problems. With this multi-unit house came lower income tenants that seemed stable, but the one in the basement seems to have a serious Listerine habit (nice, hey?) and is a smoker. I`m kind of concerned about the combination of the two. He`s been taking the stuff for so long that you can hardly understand his speech.

The ex-owner`s daughter told me her mother tried to evict him, but backed down at the last minute. She seems to play both sides of every situation involving this tenant. It started with sewer problems as he dropped a shampoo bottle lid down the toilet (on the weekend, of course). I received many screaming phone messages from that situation. Then, it wasn`t fixed, so more threatening phone calls, the nuts called the police and the city to bring out a camera (which I got charged for). I finally replaced the toilet in his suite. All this within 5 days of owning the property, and $600 later.

She doesn`t live in the house, but she visits listerine man daily, and is very vocal at my every move.

I purchased long distance, and I`ve done this before, however I feel let down by everyone involved (my realtor, who quit real estate midway; the lawyers, my inspector) as they all seem to have misrepresented the situation with the tenants and this property. For example, I now hear the basement is 6.5 feet high, a dump, and I`m lucky to have anybody live there. Another hint, one handyman went in and refused to go back. Funny how that was missed in the inspection report and the photographs.

My question is this: how to do you evict a nuisance tenant (one who makes 10 calls a day to my handyman`s wife, and to the ex-owner as he has dementia as well!) when you know that the social system is lacking in that area and that you`re basically putting an innocent old guy out on the street? Also, in Nova Scotia, there seems to be some form of tenure after 5 years, which might things more difficult for me, especially since the ex-owner`s daughter has told him to rip up my eviction notice and is guiding him.

I am seriously thinking about changing professions as I am seriously losing sleep!

Thank you for any and all forms guidance anyone can give me,

Joanne
joannemuriel *--at--* hotmail.com

 

[invst4profit]

My first piece of advice is that you visit your investment property if you have not already done so.
Secondly you should stop seriously thinking about hiring professionals and actually hire professionals. This problem obviously is never going to go away on it`s own.
Also stop thinking about putting an old man out on the street. You are not doing that he is and in the end your investment and your sanity must take priority over his insanity.
Next in order to have your questions answered you need to speak to someone experienced in dealing with the RTA in the particular province the property is located in.
You should obviously be going on line to study the RTA yourself as you need to learn the business environment you are dealing with.
Obviously you need a good property manager having contacts with paralegals or lawyers experienced with the local LTB.

Once you know your legal rights in the Provence you will have your answers or at least a knowledge of the process.
In my opinion speed is of the essence and the sooner this guy is living in a nice warm box under a bridge as opposed to your damp dark basement the better off he and you will be.

Also call the previous owner and politely suggest that if he does not stop interfering you will be taking action against him for misrepresentation of the property.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (invst4profit @ Apr 25 2010, 07:43 AM) My first piece of advice is that you visit your investment property if you have not already done so.
Secondly you should stop seriously thinking about hiring professionals and actually hire professionals. This problem obviously is never going to go away on it`s own.
Also stop thinking about putting an old man out on the street. You are not doing that he is and in the end your investment and your sanity must take priority over his insanity.
Next in order to have your questions answered you need to speak to someone experienced in dealing with the RTA in the particular province the property is located in.
You should obviously be going on line to study the RTA yourself as you need to learn the business environment you are dealing with.
Obviously you need a good property manager having contacts with paralegals or lawyers experienced with the local LTB.

Once you know your legal rights in the Provence you will have your answers or at least a knowledge of the process.
In my opinion speed is of the essence and the sooner this guy is living in a nice warm box under a bridge as opposed to your damp dark basement the better off he and you will be.

Also call the previous owner and politely suggest that if he does not stop interfering you will be taking action against him for misrepresentation of the property.
I second all his comments (except the cardboard box) as this is a BUSINESS.

However, let me add that with a business comes social responsibility, too ! Real estate is as social an asset as it gets. Real estate is a social asset !

We frequently encounter similar situations when we take over buildings and we always work with local social / welfare / housing agencies to "soften the blow". This works reasonably well in AB, BC or SK where we buy .. I do not know the situation in NS.

In some cases the new tenant is now the housing agency, they pay, and they ensure hat this tenant`s living conditions are up to par. Some people are metanlly insane, and that is not your problem .. but you can work with agencies to help you, either by relocating them or by subsidies.

I also strongly suggest that you do not do this work yourself, but let it be done by a professional called a property manager (or an eviction firm if need be) or a social agency who have trained professionals and are not as emotionally involved as you might be !

 

[invst4profit]

Definitely do not get emotionally involved. Remain strictly business keeping in mind money does not have emotions.
Help the guy if you wish but do not let helping him interfere with making decisions in your own best interest. When it is all said and done he will be living somewhere else with or without your help.

I personally believe we have a social responsibility to provide good clean and safe housing for our tenants however that is where it ends. We are not operating a social services agency and we do not have a responsibility to assist tenants being evicted regardless of the circumstances. That would be the responsibility of there next LL whether it be private or government (social services).

The reason I say this is because I have known many kind hearted LLs that made poor business decisions that have resulted in a great deal of lost time and money by operating there business with there heart rather that there head. Business first results in less stress, less worry and more profits (or less lost profits).

 

[creditinfocanada]

I agree with every bit of advice that you are getting on this issue.

 

[Berubeland]

As someone who has worked in property management for a while, I can tell you this. Generally I try to avoid evicting anyone. It`s unpleasant and I don`t know anyone who thinks evicting people is fun.

It is however a necessary part of the landlord business just like arresting shoplifters is part of store management.

This guy does not sound like a good tenant. Do whatever you have to do to move him out and get someone decent in. If the problem is that your place is a hell hole and you can`t rent it to someone decent then you need to know this ASAP.

 

[joannemuriel]

Thank you....and this IS a social business and we DO have a responsibility to the individuals living in our places, to a certain extent. And you are talking to someone who has two disabled parents, so I do take this eviction situation very seriously. Of course, this person is sweet as pie when he`s not all liquored up..

I made the mistake of investing in an area without proper property management services available. Of course, I didn`t know this at the time, and the story was different then, so I`ve screwed up and learnt since then. And with this place, I just couldn`t resist the money. I`ve been doing well at running things long distance as long as the tenants are stable. I tried hard to make sure that everyone in the building was stable BEFORE I bought the place, but the lawyers took over, communication stopped, and a nightmare emerged from the dust.

With my last property, I hired a couple of different individuals as property managers, but let them go quickly when they thought living in a dive was just fine, and "why waste money and renovate?"

As a side comment, I was told I can`t write off travel to my properties (~ I have this running under personal income, on the advice of more than one accountant). Apparently I`m not making enough yet to warrant starting a business yet, therefore I have to burn cash to check in on the situation.

I will send a letter to the ex-owner regarding her daughter. She`s crazier than the tenant and I need to get rid of him to try to get rid of her. If that doesn`t work, I`ll call my lawyer there. The services of a bailiff are available, so I`ll just use them to get rid of this tenant. And I will try to find a property manager.

Thanks again for all of your input...
Joanne

 

[vandriani]

QUOTE As a side comment, I was told I can`t write off travel to my properties (~ I have this running under personal income, on the advice of more than one accountant). Apparently I`m not making enough yet to warrant starting a business yet, therefore I have to burn cash to check in on the situation.

This does not seem correct to me. She would be going to the property for property related issues, not vacation.
Could someone with more accounting knowledge comment on this?

Also, you are running a business. Your situaton may warrant the option to incorporate but you are running a business.

 

[Thomas Beyer]

QUOTE (joannemuriel @ Apr 29 2010, 04:29 AM) As a side comment, I was told I can`t write off travel to my properties (~ I have this running under personal income, on the advice of more than one accountant).
Expense what is

a) actual, and
b) reasonable

and you will usually not have a problem !!!

 

[AndyLuchies]

I read in the CRA rules online that if you only have 1 rental property you cannot deduct expenses incurred in going to or from the property if its not near you or in collecting rent (or something like that). I don`t stand by it, but that may be where people are getting these ideas...

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4036/t4036-09e.pdf

page 14

More importantly, although Real Estate is a social asset, you must be careful to put responsibility where it belongs. Its all about having/developing good boundaries. As the leader/authority/boss, YOU decide your boundaries, and the tenants must chose whether or not to stay within them. Charity is any grace you extend to someone who violates your boundaries. and Charity must be YOUR choice, not your tenant`s.
I`ve seen too many people who THINK they`re being charitable, when in reality, they simply have no boundaries to begin with. They aren`t choosing to be nice because they don`t have the power NOT to be nice.
The interesting paradox is that the people with the clearest boundaries can also be the most charitable!

 

[Berubeland]

Real estate is not a registered charity. It is a business and to keep your business healthy you have to prune the deadwood. By getting rid of tenants that don`t pay you continue to provide housing and services to the good tenants.

If you allowed all the people who can`t pay rent to live in your building/house after a while your resources would become exhausted and you wouldn`t be able to keep the lights on, pay property taxes, fix the building for those who do pay. The best thing to to is to take care of yourself and your business so that you remain financially and emotionally healthy. If this means having to evict someone, that is the price that has to be paid.

There is a difference between enabling and charity IMHO.

There is one owner I do business with that will not even allow me to serve an N-4 because she is afraid it will anger the tenants. She is afraid they will ruin her property. Meanwhile they are already ruining her property and not paying her the rent she is owed. They also make it very difficult to rent to decent people because they invite their buddies over to fix their truck in the driveway and drink beer. It looks like a trailer trash convention. Meanwhile she complains she can hardly pay the mortgage.

So thats what happens, good tenants and bad ones never seem to coexist. You lose the good ones and the bad ones scare away any decent potential renters. So you have to be proactive.

There are really great tenants out there and thats what you need to find.